Ghost or motion blur "effect" problem at DVinfo.net

Jarda Bar · January 11th, 2010, 01:59 PM

I have found problem with my A1 camcorder. When I take a shot of fast moving object, picture contains ghost. You can seen this artifacts in this picture:

full resolution screenshot: http://www.jardabar.net/temp/CanonXH_A1_blur.jpg

Have some one any idea to resolve this problem, please?
p.s.: Noise reduction is off.

Michael Hutson · January 11th, 2010, 03:50 PM

Need a bit more info on your camera settings. I am guessing low shutter speed. What mode were you using?

Jonathan Shaw · January 12th, 2010, 01:20 AM

I reckon somewhere along the way frame rate or shutter speed are you problem, as pre previous post need more info.

Jarda Bar · January 12th, 2010, 03:32 AM

It has been taken with: 1/100, 25F ... custom preset with NR1 and NR2 off.

Olivier Depaep · January 12th, 2010, 03:48 AM

Did you zoom in a lot?

Jarda Bar · January 19th, 2010, 02:26 PM

May be it was 50% of max. zoom.

Matthew Amirkhani · January 19th, 2010, 07:28 PM

Hi Jarda,

Will you tell me which NLE program you're using? and what is the setting of it?

Jarda Bar · January 21st, 2010, 03:25 AM

Hi Matthew!
It's Vegas 9.0c, HDV 1080@25p, progressive scan ... this picture has been taken from original captured video clip m2t.

Bo Sundvall · January 21st, 2010, 04:26 PM

Hi

Image Stabilizer on or off?

Regards,

/Bo

Jarda Bar · January 25th, 2010, 01:20 AM

OIS was On.

Bo Sundvall · January 25th, 2010, 09:19 AM

Hi

Try to set it to off. Image stabilization is good in some situations but might give unwanted effects in other situations. Using a camcorder on a tripod is a situation when it's not so good. I believe that fast motion following a moving object also might generate unwanted effects as the image stabilizer is trying to, ehh, stabilize the image....

Regards,

/Bo

Howard Churgin · January 25th, 2010, 12:26 PM

I regularly video horseback riding and equestrian jumping which requires handheld work and all panning. I shoot 60i with OIS on and never have any issues. The only time i did have an issue is when i tried 30p and 24p shooting. Then the motion artifacts were terrible. But at 60i i even pull terrific slo-mo in PPro and After effects.

Peter Manojlovic · January 25th, 2010, 10:00 PM

Take it to the local Canon repair depot...
I had a similair issue. Although it was during low lighting, the effect was similair..

The problem had something to do with the autofocus sensor.

The $100-$200 to get them to check the unit might give you some piece of mind.

Chris Soucy · January 25th, 2010, 11:08 PM

I've looked at those pictures now maybe a dozen times and haven't chimed in because I simply could offer no rational explanation that fitted the shooting parameters you have quoted.

Well, I've just looked again and a glimmer of an idea occured to me.

The subject (toboganer) is as clear as a bell, no ghost/ after/ pre image which means he/ she/ it was held pretty well constant in the frame for the previous 4 or 5 fields/ frames.

Everything else, most easilly seen with the forground trees, has at least 4 pre images ghosting the frame.

Now, tell me, what was the air temp when that shot was taken and has this happened at any other time when the air temp was "normal" ie: above say, 5 degrees C?

What I'm thinking is this:

The ghosts are images of the objects as they were in preceeding fields/ frames (you can see how the oldest, right hand most, has faded the most, the immediate previous, hardly at all), they simply have not been entirely erased, and made all the more visible by being outlined against a pure white background.

Now, this could be something that happens on all cameras, all the time under similar shooting conditions and it's just never seen due to the lack of a pure white background, though I have my doubts about that, otherwise the Winter Olympics would be pretty naff on telly,

OR

There is a fault with the camera electronics not clearing the CCD between fields/ frames and thus fixable.

OR

It's neither of the above and it is, indeed, the OIS stepping to try to eliminate the unwanted movement of the camera.

My problems with that latter supposition are these:

It would have had to have stepped (and stopped, briefly) at least 4 times and possibly more in the space of 1/100th of a second. Guess it's possible but sure seems fast to me.

Then, how come the toboganer is as sharp as a tack? If the OIS is stepping around like Fred Astaire, the toboganer should be ditto and also have pre/ post image ghosts. Does not compute.

'Fraid that's my best shot with the data to hand.

CS

Jarda Bar · January 26th, 2010, 02:39 PM

First of all, many thanks to all of you.

Because, I haven't enough time to make any investigation in past few days, I didn't step forward. But yesterday, I'll go to test my camcorder to the same place and because temperatures are still bellow zero (-7°C), it will be same situation.
I will try to record video in 25F and 50i mode etc. and put results to this thread.

It doesn't seems like OIS issue for me, maybe Chris is right and there is problem in low temperatures with A1 . I never found ghost effect in my footage before.

January 11th, 2010, 01:59 PM	#1
Jarda Bar Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 43	Ghost or motion blur "effect" problem I have found problem with my A1 camcorder. When I take a shot of fast moving object, picture contains ghost. You can seen this artifacts in this picture: full resolution screenshot: http://www.jardabar.net/temp/CanonXH_A1_blur.jpg Have some one any idea to resolve this problem, please? p.s.: Noise reduction is off. Attached Images

January 12th, 2010, 01:20 AM	#3
Jonathan Shaw Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 552	I reckon somewhere along the way frame rate or shutter speed are you problem, as pre previous post need more info. __________________ www.ginclearfilm.com www.facebook.com/ginclearfilm

January 12th, 2010, 03:48 AM	#5
Olivier Depaep Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Poole, Dorset (UK) Posts: 56	Did you zoom in a lot? __________________ my website: http://www.7876.co.uk on vimeo: http:www.vimeo.com/ollie

January 19th, 2010, 07:28 PM	#7
Matthew Amirkhani Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 279	Hi Jarda, Will you tell me which NLE program you're using? and what is the setting of it? __________________ Canon XHA1, Brevis 35mm, Manfrotto 028,501,Vegas Pro 10e

January 21st, 2010, 03:25 AM	#8
Jarda Bar Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 43	Hi Matthew! It's Vegas 9.0c, HDV 1080@25p, progressive scan ... this picture has been taken from original captured video clip m2t. Last edited by Jarda Bar; January 21st, 2010 at 04:03 AM. Reason: adds

January 11th, 2010, 03:50 PM	#2
Michael Hutson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 249	Need a bit more info on your camera settings. I am guessing low shutter speed. What mode were you using?

January 12th, 2010, 03:32 AM	#4
Jarda Bar Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 43	It has been taken with: 1/100, 25F ... custom preset with NR1 and NR2 off.

January 19th, 2010, 02:26 PM	#6
Jarda Bar Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 43	May be it was 50% of max. zoom.

January 21st, 2010, 04:26 PM	#9
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	Hi Image Stabilizer on or off? Regards, /Bo

January 25th, 2010, 01:20 AM	#10
Jarda Bar Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 43	OIS was On.

January 25th, 2010, 09:19 AM	#11
Bo Sundvall Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 244	Hi Try to set it to off. Image stabilization is good in some situations but might give unwanted effects in other situations. Using a camcorder on a tripod is a situation when it's not so good. I believe that fast motion following a moving object also might generate unwanted effects as the image stabilizer is trying to, ehh, stabilize the image.... Regards, /Bo

January 25th, 2010, 12:26 PM	#12
Howard Churgin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Marlboro, NJ Posts: 85	I regularly video horseback riding and equestrian jumping which requires handheld work and all panning. I shoot 60i with OIS on and never have any issues. The only time i did have an issue is when i tried 30p and 24p shooting. Then the motion artifacts were terrible. But at 60i i even pull terrific slo-mo in PPro and After effects.

January 25th, 2010, 10:00 PM	#13
Peter Manojlovic Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hamilton Ontario Posts: 769	Take it in Take it to the local Canon repair depot... I had a similair issue. Although it was during low lighting, the effect was similair.. The problem had something to do with the autofocus sensor. The $100-$200 to get them to check the unit might give you some piece of mind.

January 25th, 2010, 11:08 PM	#14
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,682 Images: 18	Hi Jarda................... I've looked at those pictures now maybe a dozen times and haven't chimed in because I simply could offer no rational explanation that fitted the shooting parameters you have quoted. Well, I've just looked again and a glimmer of an idea occured to me. The subject (toboganer) is as clear as a bell, no ghost/ after/ pre image which means he/ she/ it was held pretty well constant in the frame for the previous 4 or 5 fields/ frames. Everything else, most easilly seen with the forground trees, has at least 4 pre images ghosting the frame. Now, tell me, what was the air temp when that shot was taken and has this happened at any other time when the air temp was "normal" ie: above say, 5 degrees C? What I'm thinking is this: The ghosts are images of the objects as they were in preceeding fields/ frames (you can see how the oldest, right hand most, has faded the most, the immediate previous, hardly at all), they simply have not been entirely erased, and made all the more visible by being outlined against a pure white background. Now, this could be something that happens on all cameras, all the time under similar shooting conditions and it's just never seen due to the lack of a pure white background, though I have my doubts about that, otherwise the Winter Olympics would be pretty naff on telly, OR There is a fault with the camera electronics not clearing the CCD between fields/ frames and thus fixable. OR It's neither of the above and it is, indeed, the OIS stepping to try to eliminate the unwanted movement of the camera. My problems with that latter supposition are these: It would have had to have stepped (and stopped, briefly) at least 4 times and possibly more in the space of 1/100th of a second. Guess it's possible but sure seems fast to me. Then, how come the toboganer is as sharp as a tack? If the OIS is stepping around like Fred Astaire, the toboganer should be ditto and also have pre/ post image ghosts. Does not compute. 'Fraid that's my best shot with the data to hand. CS Last edited by Chris Soucy; January 25th, 2010 at 11:58 PM. Reason: ++Update

January 26th, 2010, 02:39 PM	#15
Jarda Bar Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 43	First of all, many thanks to all of you. Because, I haven't enough time to make any investigation in past few days, I didn't step forward. But yesterday, I'll go to test my camcorder to the same place and because temperatures are still bellow zero (-7°C), it will be same situation. I will try to record video in 25F and 50i mode etc. and put results to this thread. It doesn't seems like OIS issue for me, maybe Chris is right and there is problem in low temperatures with A1 . I never found ghost effect in my footage before.