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-   -   XH-A1 Auto White Balance Trustworthy? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xh-series-hdv-camcorders/481890-xh-a1-auto-white-balance-trustworthy.html)

Norm Kaiser July 14th, 2010 11:56 AM

XH-A1 Auto White Balance Trustworthy?
 
Hi folks:

Quick question about the XH-A1's AWB feature -- is it trustworthy? I'm about to do a shoot with two XH-A1s and was wondering if the AWB is good enough for color consistency or if I need to manually white balance both cameras.

Thanks,
Norm

Danny Winn July 14th, 2010 12:53 PM

The professional thing to always do is to manually set the white balance. I NEVER use AWB, in fact I don't know anyone in the video business that does unless you absolutly had to for some strange reason.

I do not trust AWB especially using 2 different cameras, but that's my personal opinion.

Good Luck;)

Colin McDonald July 14th, 2010 01:35 PM

Auto WB, like autofocus, will change as you shoot and can "hunt" at times. Even with matched cameras, when shooting two different camera angles, you are very likely to notice a difference in the auto WB decision when cutting between them. Much better with a manual balance, but even using one of the presets (the same one on both cameras) is better because it stays put. And if you don't like it you can tweak it in post - something that's difficult to do with the auto because it shifts from angle to angle.

Don Xaliman July 14th, 2010 05:45 PM

I find AWB to be entertaining in the variety of shifts it will do during different light conditions. Sometimes I use it because of this variation. For one camera shoots it can be useful and in general it does a fairly good job if your lighting conditions don't change during a shoot.

Norm Kaiser July 14th, 2010 08:18 PM

OK, thanks for all the replies so far. I assumed most everyone would recommend I manually set the white balance.

I'm going to be shooting a mixed martial arts (UFC) match. So please tell me if my plan is right.

I plan to have a helper hold a white card in the center of the ring. Then I'll white balance each camera from the apron of the ring. Then I'll move each camera to its respective position. Is that right?

Thanks,
Norm

Danny Winn July 14th, 2010 08:55 PM

I would position the cameras where they will be used and then set the white balance, you have to remember factors like light intensity and distance. You'd probably be ok but the best place to set all your settings is from the point where the camera will be used the most, zoom to the white card for WB if you have to.

I do TONS of MMA shooting, I am the production guy for the world famous Jacksons Mixed Martial arts here in Aluquerque, I also train there myself.

Here's some MMA related vids I've done.

YouTube - MMA Star "The Dean Of Mean" Keith Jardine Pistachio Commercial

YouTube - Team Jacksons 1st annual UNC "Ultimate Nugget Championship"

YouTube - Jacksons MMA Series - Live at the Hard Rock Albuquerque

Allan Black July 15th, 2010 12:37 AM

The A1/S WB does a good job but not for mixed lighting when you change angles. The Expodisc is great for that eg: sunlight through the windows on beige walls.
Cheers.

G. Randy Brown July 15th, 2010 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Winn (Post 1548796)
I would position the cameras where they will be used and then set the white balance, you have to remember factors like light intensity and distance. You'd probably be ok but the best place to set all your settings is from the point where the camera will be used the most, zoom to the white card for WB if you have to.

Hey Danny,
I'd agree that would be the best way but what else can you do if the subject is too far away to zoom to a wb card? You have to get close enough to fill the frame with white right?
Also, when doing your wb, do you set your exposure to the white card or the subject?
I ask because I shoot a weekly church service that has a wall with various burnt orange variations....I've tried a couple different ways of white balancing but the XHA1 makes it a tan/brown color.
Thanks,
Randy

BTW I didn't mean to hi-jack with my personal issue

Norm Kaiser July 15th, 2010 07:22 AM

Thanks, Denny, for your advice. Do you think I could use the flat side of a white poster board from the drug store to white balance? That would give me a bigger target to zoom in on.

G. Randy Brown July 15th, 2010 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allan Black (Post 1548839)
The A1/S WB does a good job but not for mixed lighting when you change angles. The Expodisc is great for that eg: sunlight through the windows on beige walls.
Cheers.

May be a dumb question but what is the Expodisc Allan?

Never mind I found it...thanks

G. Randy Brown July 15th, 2010 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm Kaiser (Post 1548901)
Thanks, Denny, for your advice. Do you think I could use the flat side of a white poster board from the drug store to white balance? That would give me a bigger target to zoom in on.

Apparently Danny isn't available so If I may offer my 2 cents...yes Norm...any flat, white surface, just make sure it doesn't reflect when doing your white balance.

EDIT: some people like slightly off white cards for special effects also (slightly grey, blue etc). You may want to google "white balance"

Danny Winn July 15th, 2010 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G. Randy Brown (Post 1548898)
Hey Danny,
I'd agree that would be the best way but what else can you do if the subject is too far away to zoom to a wb card? You have to get close enough to fill the frame with white right?
Also, when doing your wb, do you set your exposure to the white card or the subject?
I ask because I shoot a weekly church service that has a wall with various burnt orange variations....I've tried a couple different ways of white balancing but the XHA1 makes it a tan/brown color.
Thanks,
Randy

BTW I didn't mean to hi-jack with my personal issue

Hey G. Randy Brown,

What I do when I know I'll be shooting some distance is just go to walmart and get one of those big white cardboard sheets that school kids use, they're only about a buck fifty and they roll up quite nicely (avoid wrinkles though). I also make sure that the entire face of it is facing the strongest light source, make sure it isnt facing backwards casting a shadow on the whole or part of it.

And yes you could set your exposure at this point too, however if you do it this way you should be able to mess with the exposre after the WB has been set and not have any problems.

If you still cant fit the whole frame with the cardboard then moving up till it is filled should cause no problems.

Not sure why you're getting a tan look though, would love to see a screen grab of that:)

Danny Winn July 15th, 2010 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm Kaiser (Post 1548901)
Thanks, Denny, for your advice. Do you think I could use the flat side of a white poster board from the drug store to white balance? That would give me a bigger target to zoom in on.


Yeah Norm, I use those all the time when I know I'll be a bit far away from the action.

Oh, you also might want to bump your shutter speed up a tiny bit to eliminate a bad motion blur during the fights, not so much that you get a stobing effect though. You may have to open the iris up one or two clicks to compensate for the faster shutter speed too, just not so much that you're getting white color burns.

Norm Kaiser July 15th, 2010 02:39 PM

Danny:

I was told by a couple other posters here that I should go with a shutter speed of no higher than 1/60 to avoid strobing from the lights. Would you agree with that?

Thanks,
Norm

Allan Black July 15th, 2010 05:31 PM

Certainly no higher than 1/60 if you're shooting prop driven aircraft, the prop blades strobe.

At HARS we have a Lockheed Super Constellation with 4 big engines and the large strobing blades look terrible.

Cheers.

Danny Winn July 15th, 2010 05:34 PM

Well,

1/60 is the standard base shutter speed, a "sports" shutter is usually higher. 1/60 does have some motion blur to it. I don't think you'll start getting a real strobe effect till probably 1/100, so 1/75 would probably be a safe bet, possibly even 1/90.

I would definitly do some small test shots before the event so you can see what you like. My problem with 1/60 in any fast moving sport type shot is that if you want to pull still images from the action there will be bluring problems in most cases, it can also make slo mo look less appealing sometimes.

Having said all that, you might have a different style than me, and the cool thing about video is that you can shoot how you want and develop your own style, so don't feel that you have to do it all the way I or anyone else does. I would encourage some test shooting though, even if its just you in the backyard play fighting with different shutter speeds, haha, I've done that brother;)

Takeshi Fukushima July 18th, 2010 11:12 PM

A lot depends on Light source.

Color temperature:
If you know the light source, you can preset exact color temperature on the A1s. 3200K for tungsten if the venue has Tungsten lighting (more likely they will have tungsten) 4800K for florescent lights, 5600k and above if they have daylights as Mercury lamps.
The great thing about this setup is that you can shift according to your taste. If you look in your monitor and want a bit warmer or cooler color, you can adjust precisely. I tend to like warmer colors so shoot 3600K for Tungsten lights.

Shutter speed:
1/60 for most of the part. Make sure they don't have florescent bulbs or Mercury lamps, if set to 1/60 you will get flicker. (If your electricity is 50Hz) Shoot with 1/100. Good to check the monitor.


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