Is there a Camcorder that captures DSLR quality photos? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 17th, 2010, 06:42 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Surprise Arizona
Posts: 292
Is there a Camcorder that captures DSLR quality photos?

When I update from my XH-A1's I want to move in a direction where I can capture photos that rival any DSLR. Is there a camcorder that captures HD video and fantastic stills or is this still the future? I definitely do not want to go the DSLR route.
Greg Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2010, 10:51 PM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Yes:

RED / Cameras

http://www.aaton.com/penelope-april-2010-light.pdf
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2010, 12:04 AM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Byron Bay, Australia
Posts: 1,142
How about this newly announced hybrid?

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...camcorder.html

It still has some comprimises - most importantly for those who still want a 'proper camcorder' is the lack of zoom rocker.

The main issue is that the massive difference in pixel count between a still image and high def-video leads to problems. HD video is about 2MP so chips designed for video purposes deliver fairly soft still images. On the other hand, too many pixels leads to problems with handling so huge amounts of data. There are several methods including pixel binning and line-skipping but each of these have problems (stair stepping, severe aliasing, etc) which arise when you throw away 85% of your data (you might notice some of these issues when down-converting HD footage as well). Obviously if you cram a whole lot more processing power into the camera, like they have done with RED, then the data becomes managable and you get better stills/video balance.

Other problems come from camcorder sensors too, like the limited DoF control and much narrower dynamic range which both contribute to rather lack-lustre photo performance. So the only way to get true DSLR stills performance out of a video-camera is to approach it from the DSLR hardware side with a larger chip - which is what is now just happening for the first time.
John Wiley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2010, 12:17 AM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wiley View Post
There are several methods including pixel binning and line-skipping but each of these have problems (stair stepping, severe aliasing, etc) which arise when you throw away 85% of your data (you might notice some of these issues when down-converting HD footage as well).
Using a quality rescaling algorithm removes many of these problems. Which is why you can rescale RED 4k to 1080 or even SD resolutions without issue. The trick is doing this quickly, inside the camera body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wiley View Post
So the only way to get true DSLR stills performance out of a video-camera is to approach it from the DSLR hardware side with a larger chip - which is what is now just happening for the first time.
Dalsa and RED have been doing this for several years now. The issue of course, is that consumers don't want to pay for what it costs. So you can get your RED with a Mysterium-X sensor, or the Aaton, and it will capture darn good approximations of what something like a 7D can do. But you'll pay 20x-40x the price of the 7D to do it.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2010, 02:36 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Prague Czech Republic
Posts: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
Using a quality rescaling algorithm removes many of these problems. Which is why you can rescale RED 4k to 1080 or even SD resolutions without issue. The trick is doing this quickly, inside the camera body.
Yes, it's true for big camera. But small camera (like 550D) can't make this quality in real time (with less power of processing), so John Wiley is right.
Pavel Sedlak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2010, 03:16 AM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavel Sedlak View Post
Yes, it's true for big camera. But small camera (like 550D) can't make this quality in real time (with less power of processing), so John Wiley is right.
The original poster stated he did not WANT a DSLR type camera. So we aren't talking about something the size of the 550D here.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2010, 06:16 AM   #7
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Byron Bay, Australia
Posts: 1,142
But the OP said he wanted a Camcorder, not a $30,000+ digital cinema system, so we're not talking about RED either :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
Using a quality rescaling algorithm removes many of these problems. Which is why you can rescale RED 4k to 1080 or even SD resolutions without issue. The trick is doing this quickly, inside the camera body.
Thats exactly what I was talking about when I said they'd crammed a lot more processing pwer into the RED.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
Dalsa and RED have been doing this for several years now. The issue of course, is that consumers don't want to pay for what it costs. So you can get your RED with a Mysterium-X sensor, or the Aaton, and it will capture darn good approximations of what something like a 7D can do. But you'll pay 20x-40x the price of the 7D to do it.
Yes, but that is not the same thing as a camcorder. I should've been more clear and said this is only just happening now for camcorders.
John Wiley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2010, 05:12 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Surprise Arizona
Posts: 292
Thank You - Excellent Explanations

I guess my worse fears are true. Unless I want or can afford to go the RED route there is nothing in a camcorder, for now, that will capture great HD video and superb Photos.
Greg Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2010, 10:06 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 806
Right. Is that really your worst fear? You should get out more :) DSLRs are good for me right now. There are alot more issues than price in the RED for me like size, portablitly, and post processing. It is hardly what I would call a "camcorder" right?
Bill
__________________
Cinema Couture
www.cinemacouture.com
Bill Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19th, 2010, 03:13 AM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 532
why not just have an affordable DSLR that will be infinitely better for stills on hand, and use a traditional camcorder for video? i know you want an all in one solution, but i find if i need a screwdriver, i don't reach for my leatherman if a dedicated screwdriver is around...
and the DSLR will just happen to shoot brilliant video as a bonus...
Brian David Melnyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19th, 2010, 03:57 AM   #11
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Apple Valley CA
Posts: 4,866
Did you look at the newly announced Sony - it's only a couple months out (Sept. release)?

And I'll bet we will be seeing some comeback from the competition shortly, although I think Sony kinda came out of left field with the whole NEX platform... sure wasn't what I expected!
Dave Blackhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19th, 2010, 08:18 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Surprise Arizona
Posts: 292
DSLR as a Camcorder

Talk me into buying this camera...

I realize that many have found a decent use for DSLR as a camcorder. I just don't see the point. It is like going backwards. For me the perfect solution is an improved camcorder with excellent photos so all I have to carry is one camera. I completely agree with Chris Hurd in his post April 30th at top.
Greg Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 19th, 2010, 08:27 AM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post
I realize that many have found a decent use for DSLR as a camcorder. I just don't see the point.
Well that's fine. I didn't see the point either at first. Until it dawned on me that some of my most challenging shooting was trying to get decent recordings in areas I couldn't bring my lights. Or in making movies and wanting to solve certain problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post
It is like going backwards. For me the perfect solution is an improved camcorder with excellent photos so all I have to carry is one camera.
It is like going backwards. To film. With full sized lenses, manual everything, and a need to have tools and skills of the craft. Many would like to have the perfect all-in-one video and stills camera. But the fact remains that it's like asking for a car that you can win a race in on Sunday, take the kids to school in Monday, and haul timber in on Saturday. To get one vehicle to do it all would require compromises that would preclude it being good at any. The same is true with video cameras. And film.


If you want a video camera that can give you decent stills, buy a RED. If you want a still camera that does decent video, buy an HDSLR. If neither of these solutions work for you, then buy two cameras. That's really where the current market is.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20th, 2010, 04:21 PM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London UK
Posts: 31
As always, if you can get the right lighting, the XHA1 can produce usable stills.
Attached Thumbnails
Is there a Camcorder that captures DSLR quality photos?-wr4.jpg   Is there a Camcorder that captures DSLR quality photos?-wr7.jpg  

Paul Hatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2010, 03:25 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post
Talk me into buying this camera...

I realize that many have found a decent use for DSLR as a camcorder. I just don't see the point. It is like going backwards. For me the perfect solution is an improved camcorder with excellent photos so all I have to carry is one camera. I completely agree with Chris Hurd in his post April 30th at top.
What is it you're trying to do?

Your best bet will still be to carry separate still and video cams.

However you can certainly pull "decent" stills off the XHA1, and I in fact did that a lot back when I was doing a lot of work with large corporate customers who were more concerned about having a couple stills of a manufacturing or engineering process that I just shot to show at a meeting in 10 minutes than they were about ultimate resolution and sharpness. Now certainly those stills could not equal the output of a 40D. let alone the newer 5D MKII, etc. But they were quick to make, sharp enough and made the customer very happy.

I have also been able to pull some very nice stills off my HMC150. I had to produce 3 stills each (4X6) for 28 music students. All but 2 sets came out really nice. At that size, (4X6) it was possible to do.

But if you want something to match the quality of say a Canon 7D or 5D MKII, then you will have to get one of those cams. They both have the advantage of still being affordable as well.
Steve Wolla is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:37 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network