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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old November 30th, 2010, 04:02 AM   #1
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How to use UHF and Cam mic input together

Im taping a school play with my XH A1... I did this last year, and the kids walked all over my mic cords.

I want to use my UHF system with one mic on stage AND my "on camera mic" to pick up the speakers should my UHF unit fail or have interference.. If I use the mini plug for my UHF, my on cam mic is bypassed. If I set to XLR input I cant use the mini plug (in) for my UHF receiver.

I assume I will have to set cam to XLR, get a mini to XLR adapter for my UHF...plus use another mic in the other XLR input.
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Any suggestions.

Jeff
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Old November 30th, 2010, 06:41 AM   #2
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As far as I know, the A1 design only let's you choose to use the builtin mics or external. So you need to use two external mics.
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Old November 30th, 2010, 08:39 AM   #3
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Lee is correct. To use two sources, you'll need to use the two XLR inputs. The mini-plug input disables the XLR inputs.
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Old November 30th, 2010, 10:53 AM   #4
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Jeff,
Some receivers have a threaded collar around the mini jack. This lets you use a mini to XLR cable that firmly threads onto the receiver (i.e. not subject to tugs and pulls. Sennheiser wireless units use this kind of cable and you should be able to find one if your receiver has a threaded collar. Also, pay attention to cable length as excess cable can snag and get in the way.

Not so much for the play but for your kit in general, you may want to look at getting a nice shotgun that you can mount on your A1 sometime. R0de NTG-1 is what I used and is a popular one for the A1 because it is relatively short without a battery compartment (NTRG-2). Your A1 supplies 48v phantom power via the XLR so your shotgun need't have it when used with the camera.

However, capturing audio of a stage production requires a lot of coverage. A shotgun by design has a narrow pickup pattern. Search DVinfo on this topic for lots of information on strategies for recording school plays. Hopefully you can get a feed from the sound board.

Last edited by Les Wilson; December 1st, 2010 at 06:26 AM.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 02:04 AM   #5
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Thanks to all for input...I went over to the school and experimented a little

I tried connecting my UHF xmitter to the mixer line out..which didnt work for some reason. The signal may be to hot since its line out .This would be my first choice though.

Cant use a shotgun...there's far too much reverb in the building..concrete walls.

I have a dual uhf unit with a xlr transmitters. I put two Shure SM 58s on stage transmitting to my receiver on the cam................seems to pick up anywhere on the stage. This will be my choice over running long mic cables for people to step on. I will have to set the mics on pads to hold down the floor (wood) noise....but this seems to be my best choice if I cant get the audio from the mixer.

Jeff
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Old December 1st, 2010, 06:34 AM   #6
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Yes, you are hitting another design constraint with the A1. The XLR inputs must both be set to the same in terms of line/mic. So you can't put a mic on one and line level feed on the other.

However, there is a 20dB attenuator switch on each that may do the trick. Your wireless transmitter may also let you set ATT on and that is probably your best bet. Using attenuation, you *may* be able to get a suitable mic level from the sound board. You definitely want to test it and monitor it during rehearsal.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 08:05 AM   #7
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BTW, SM58 are the wrong mics for picking up an area. Those are for close proximity (think ice cream cone close) sources. You want condenser mics which will need phantom power. Search DVinfo on mic'ing choirs and you'll get an idea of what it takes to mic a large area. Frankly, to do it right, you are duplicating what the house should already be doing. If they have headsets on actors and area mics, you should work at getting that feed from the board.... even if it's wired.

Another approach is to put your audio block at line level and put a field mixer into the chain for your mics. The mixer should give you the mics at line level. Again, it's the design constraints of the A1 ... all for the price of a switch. ;-)
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 02:46 PM   #8
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Why not use a separate digital recorder and mix it in post?
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 10:10 AM   #9
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Thanks to all for the comments

Ive considered using a separate recorder plus the wireless mics . I have a Pany DAT recorder..tape version.
There is a stereo "tape" out on the mixer. I think the DAT tapes run an hour which is long enough. It's just that it's another capture and sync step I was trying to avoid. I really need to purchase a couple of small digital recorders. Just got a new NLE PC built...so budget is shot for now.

Im going to place two wireless mics stage left and stage right and xmit to my dual receiver into the mini jack. Im always anxious when using wireless when there are other wireless xmtrs being used. Ive had interference before even if on diff channels.

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Old December 18th, 2010, 04:15 AM   #10
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Note...
The above method worked fairly well....way to much ambient reverb pickup though. I had to do a lot of post audio work to reduce the reverb of the gym.

They had many overhead mics and a couple of wireless mics.
They only way to do it right would be to come out of the mixer to the A1. Which I could not do because of cable length needed from mixer to cam. For future....need to find a way to match impedance of my UHF unit to mixer outputs. Line out to mic in on UHF unit.

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Old December 18th, 2010, 05:30 AM   #11
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If it's a play, then unless they're all miked up, the sound board will be underused? Maybe some sound effects, but theatrical sound departments have for years almost 'standardised' on PCC160 boundary mics which have proven to be by far the best method. You can try flown mics, shotguns, and all kinds of clever stuff, but a PCC on the stage edge invariably works best! Depending in the width, 2,3 or 5 work best. As the Crowns are now discontinued - I've copied the favourite replacement info here - and it's US made!
Quote:
The designers of the PCC-160 have joined forces
as Bartlett Microphones. They are introducing
their next-generation stage-floor microphone --
the TM-125 - featuring these improvements:
* Smaller size
* Lower cost
* More rugged
* Smoother frequency response
* Each unit is tuned and voiced to match others within +/- 1.5 dB
* Made in Elkhart, Indiana, U.S.A.
* 100% tested by the design engineers
* Tech support by the design engineers

This supercardioid boundary mic is designed for
use on the theater stage to pick up actors in
drama or musicals. Other intended uses are
capturing the footwork of dance groups, and
picking up speech in boardrooms, conferences, pulpits, and altar tables.

Miniature capsule technology prevents phase
cancellations due to sound reflections off the
stage floor or table top. This results in a wide,
smooth frequency response free of comb filtering,
so speech sounds clear and natural.

With its thick steel housing and low-profile
rugged construction, the TM-125 can withstand
heavy footsteps that would destroy other
microphones. All electronics are inside the
housing. A supplied XLR mic cable plugs into a
connector in the side of the microphone.

The tight supercardioid polar pattern of the
TM-125 helps gain-before-feedback, and provides
excellent isolation from sounds behind the mic,
such as a pit orchestra. The microphone picks up
sound while rejecting mechanical vibrations.

Frequency response: 60 Hz to 18 kHz, rising at
high frequencies to compensate for picking up speech off-axis.
Signal-to-noise ratio: 72 dB at 94 dB SPL.
Maximum SPL: 120 dB SPL produces 3% THD. The mic
will not audibly distort in normal use.
Finish: Black or white.
Price: $199 plus $10 shipping.

Bartlett Microphones is based in Elkhart,
Indiana. Designers Bruce Bartlett and Steve Mills
have 57 years of combined engineering experience
at Shure and Crown International before forming their own company in 2009.

For more information, please visit their website at bartlettmics.com.
There's a video on their site showing how tough they are - so using our British sense of humour, I knocked up a similar one
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