Xha1 1920x1080? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 13th, 2011, 01:12 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia, pa
Posts: 705
Xha1 1920x1080?

Is the xhal capeable of full HD at 1920X1080 if I record to a hard drive as opposed to tape?
Kevin Lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2011, 01:51 PM   #2
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 73
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

When I record onto my DN-60, the resulting files are 1920x1080.

What device are you wanting to record onto?
__________________
Josh Keffer
“Don’t shoot your demo reel. Be true to the story.” Tobias Schliessler, ASC
Josh Keffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 14th, 2011, 02:31 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 244
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

Hi

You can't get full HD 1920x1080 from the XH-A1 as the CCD chip is 1440x1080. If you somehow manage to get 1920x1080 with an external recorder, it's the recorder that converts the 1440x1080 signal to full HD. The chip itself is not capable to do that.


Regards,

/Bo
Bo Sundvall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2011, 12:23 AM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Posts: 2,109
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

I think XH-A1 is just like HV20/HV30/HV40 sensor is capable of full HD 1920x1080. It's the HDV compression makes it 1440x1080. So if you can bypass storing to tape (record directly through HDMI), you can get 1920x1080 resolution.
__________________
LA Color Pros Blog
RODE Authorized Reseller . Comer LED Camera Lights . TakyBox HTML5 Menu Generator
Taky Cheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2011, 01:19 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Entebbe Uganda
Posts: 768
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

I'm pretty sure the XHA1 does not have HDMI out. If you record via the Firewire output then I believe the HDV compression has already taken place, but the recorder might be reinterpreting it. When I record the uncompressed signal from the SDI out of the XLH1 the nanoflash certainly produces 1920 x 1080.

When I work with HDV clips in post they are always 1440x1080 to begin with, but this is 1.333 anamorphic so the ratio (16:9) is essentially still the same as 1920x1080 (also 16:9 because 1.333 x 1440 = 1920).

When you output in post with the result will be 1920 x 1080.
Simon Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2011, 01:20 AM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Posts: 2,109
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

Oh I might have confused it with HV30 HDMI out. ... sorry
__________________
LA Color Pros Blog
RODE Authorized Reseller . Comer LED Camera Lights . TakyBox HTML5 Menu Generator
Taky Cheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2011, 01:34 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 949
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Lewis View Post
Is the xhal capeable of full HD at 1920X1080 if I record to a hard drive as opposed to tape?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Keffer View Post
When I record onto my DN-60, the resulting files are 1920x1080.
Actually, they are HDV 1440x1080, but they are played back with a 1.33 PAR (pixel aspect ratio) to give a 1920x1080 image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Sundvall View Post
it's the recorder that converts the 1440x1080 signal to full HD. The chip itself is not capable to do that.
The XH-A1 will de-squeeze the 1440x1080 to 1920x1080 for the component video out, but it of course still has less resolution than if the sensor were actually 1920x1080.

I record the XH-A1 video out with a BlackMagic Design Intensity Shuttle.
Daniel Browning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2011, 02:52 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 552
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

Yep it's 1440x1080. Pixel's are a different aspect ratio, what is the issue with 1440 though? HDCAM is 1440.... You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two.
Jonathan Shaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2011, 03:15 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Plainfield, Illinois
Posts: 236
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

Okay,

I'm a bit confused. Some are saying, "Yes while other are saying, "No". Which answer is correct? I can say that I have recorded to both my MacBook Pro hard drive as well as both HDV HD and Mini DV tapes. Per my observation, the footage does tend to look better from the hard drive. Having the XHA1s, I can confirm that the camera has what I refer to as a non-traditional HDMI out. But what does that really mean. Isn't 720P considered HD as well. Also, if the video that's being captured isn't being burned to a blue ray DVD, what difference if any will it make? I'm just asking because like many here, I'm just learning.
Maurice Covington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2011, 04:12 PM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 3,634
Images: 18
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice Covington View Post
Having the XHA1s, I can confirm that the camera has what I refer to as a non-traditional HDMI out .
Er, hello, hold the phone, when did it aquire that? News to Canon, they deny all knowledge.


Quote:
Isn't 720P considered HD as well.
Certainly it is, but the Canon doesn't O/P or record it, so it's a totall red herring in this discussion.


Quote:
the footage does tend to look better from the hard drive.
If the footage was recorded live to a system directly via the IEEE 1394 port, it would, as it hasn't undergone the compression necessary to cram that data onto a MiniDV tape.

Once the data stream has been compressed, data in excess of the bandwidth limit of the tape is simply tossed overboard and is lost forever. It is exceedingly easy to blow this bandwidth limit in HDV by simply panning/ tilting too fast, which causes the well known HDV "smear" as the background turns to mush.

This explains the popularity of "on camera" HD recorders which bypass this compression by taking the uncompressed data stream from the IEEE 1394 port, exactly the same as recording directly to your PC/ Mac.

Quote:
I'm a bit confused
If the designers of HDV had tried to use 1920 X 1080 sensors and data streams, the HDV compression would have had to throw so much data away, the picture would have been unusable.

Hence why they decided on 1440 X 1080, it's not a camera limitation, purely a mini DV tape limitation, which was the only game in town when the format was being hammered out.

Does that make things any clearer?


CS
Chris Soucy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2011, 07:19 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Plainfield, Illinois
Posts: 236
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

My apologies, it looks like I am mistaken. It is an HD component out.
Maurice Covington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2011, 07:20 PM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 1,521
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

Quote:
If the footage was recorded live to a system directly via the IEEE 1394 port, it would, as it hasn't undergone the compression necessary to cram that data onto a MiniDV tape.
I hesitate to question the Oracle, but are you sure about this? Isn't the compression done before it reaches the Firewire output? Is it not reduced to 25 Mb/s for both tape and Firewire?

These coal-fired cameras are wonderful (I still swear by mine) but one begins to forget ...
Colin McDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2011, 07:39 PM   #13
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

FireWire output is indeed compressed. You get 25Mbps HDV 1440x1080 from FireWire.

On the A1 / A1S sister camera, that is the XH G1 or XH G1S, you have uncompressed output over SDI.
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2011, 07:56 PM   #14
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 3,634
Images: 18
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

Huh! About 5 minutes after I posted, I started thinking, "are you sure about that, there's alarm bells going off for some reason?".

Guess that 'ol senior moment struck yet again, dang.

Better go back to dropping that V8 into my Zimmer frame, it's safer!


CS
Chris Soucy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2011, 08:02 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Plainfield, Illinois
Posts: 236
Re: Xha1 1920x1080?

@ Chris Hurd: What does the 25 Mbps do for me using my XHA1 and/or XHA1s. Also, are you saying that it does shoot in the 1080P or is it just between 720P and 1080P; if there is such a display? This is all new to me so I can appreciate any help that you or anyone else in this forum can provide.
Maurice Covington is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:50 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network