Do you color correct in post all the time? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 23rd, 2011, 09:33 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ridley Park, PA, USA
Posts: 269
Do you color correct in post all the time?

I have been searching and reading much about the flat drab look of the XH A1s and I agree. I have had mine for a few weeks and am very disappointed with it so far.

I am by no means a video camera expert. I have owned several GL2s and the smaller Vixia HV 40 cameras and used them with much success. The XH A1s images always seem dark and lifeless compared to those other cameras.

At this point I feel like I still have more work to do to learn the camera and I have begun experimenting with the custom presets which are posted on this forum.

Color correcting and saturation adjustment has helped to a certain degree but I would much rather have images that are closer to what I want without having to tweak them as much.



Is this something I just have to get used to and do you all color correct your footage all the time?
__________________
http://mikepulcinella.com/portfolio.htm
Check out my work!
Michael Pulcinella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2011, 10:25 PM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,979
Re: Do you color correct in post all the time?

This is a common question and not limited to the A1. There's sound reasons manufacturers ship cameras with bland color presets. When I had the A1, I used a True Color Preset when I wanted to get the most realistic capture. There's another one called VividRGB for outdoor scenery. I used the attached preset whenever I wanted good skin tones.

Here's some posts to get you started:
Help me get this LOOK with my A1

TrueColor configuration for XH A1

faded colors
Attached Files
File Type: cpf PRESET02.CPF (40 Bytes, 143 views)
Les Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2011, 11:40 PM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 3,634
Images: 18
Re: Do you color correct in post all the time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pulcinella View Post
I have been searching and reading much about the flat drab look of the XH A1s and I agree. I have had mine for a few weeks and am very disappointed with it so far.
..................................................
Is this something I just have to get used to and do you all color correct your footage all the time?
Ah, Michael, a couple of things to consider.

First off, consumer cams are sold set up for "eye popping colour and saturation", which can be done with the A1/ A1s, you just need to know the settings.

As I have the A1, not the 1s, I can't really comment on it's performance "out of the box", all I can say is that my A1 in "out of box" mode, with the addition of a 1/2 stop down on the exposure, renders eye popping video, with no fiddling required, on an average domestic LCD HD capable set, which is, after all, where it's destined (in my case, anyway).

On my PC monitor it looks complete crap, but that just goes with the territory of cheap PC monitors.

Domestic flat screeens are set up entirely differently to your average PC monitor unless you want to spend squillions, which I will not, so the telly does the talking.

If it works great on my 5 years old, full HD 46" Sony, it'll work great everywhere there's an "average" new telly.

So, in answer to your last question, no, I do not colour correct anything, as it simply isn't required, it pops, straight out of the box.

For my audience, anyway.


CS
Chris Soucy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2011, 07:07 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ridley Park, PA, USA
Posts: 269
Re: Do you color correct in post all the time?

Thanks Les and Chris! I am beginning to understand that I am at a new level with this camera and must put more time into learning it. You both have pointed me in the right direction.
__________________
http://mikepulcinella.com/portfolio.htm
Check out my work!
Michael Pulcinella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2011, 08:30 AM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,979
Re: Do you color correct in post all the time?

Good. Learning to adjust the color of your footage just makes you a better editor and your stuff will look a bit better than those who can't.

Understand, color correction slows down your post production. If you master the A1 presets and can capture that nice eye popping look you want in camera, then you won't be doing it in post.

The converse is also true, you may not want everything recorded with a preset's enhancements and you want to use the full power of your NLE to experiment and tune the artistic effect you have in mind. That's when capturing the True Color is useful.

Watch your saturation levels. That can make skin tones go orange on you which is hard to repair in post.
Les Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2011, 08:42 AM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ridley Park, PA, USA
Posts: 269
Re: Do you color correct in post all the time?

Thank you. I know what you are talking about! I am actually quite experienced at color correction, having worked with stills in the printing industry for 10+ years. So, I don't fear having to color correct.

In fact, even with my previous cameras I usually ended up tweaking almost all of the footage a bit. I guess it was habit from my previous job! I feel it is a necessary part of the editing process, no matter how carefully you have adjusted your camera.

There is another thing that I was hoping we could address, beyond the drab color issue, that I don't like about the XH A1s, and that is the DARKNESS of the image.

At this point I am assuming I don't know how to operate the camera properly. But it also seems that, compared to my other two Canon experiences, the XH A1s needs much more light.

I am opening up the lens as much as I can and still things seems dark. Boosting gain, as I have read all over this forum and experienced myself, brings grain up to an unacceptable level very quickly.

I am not against some grain. I feel that it can help achieve the so-called film look that so many strive for, but I was wondering if you or anyone else had any advice on aperture, frame rate or other settings with regard to the BRIGHTNESS of the images.

Thanks again in advance!
__________________
http://mikepulcinella.com/portfolio.htm
Check out my work!
Michael Pulcinella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2011, 09:06 AM   #7
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA
Posts: 1,675
Re: Do you color correct in post all the time?

Every shot, all the time, no exceptions. I light and shoot using a modified zone system using 3 zones that specifically target the shadows, midtones and hilights that my 3-way color corrector can grab onto. I also light and choose costumes and shot backgrounds in such a way that I have a color separation between them to be able to grab different sections of the image to manipulate them.

Every shot.
__________________
Web Youtube Facebook
Cole McDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2011, 11:16 AM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,979
Re: Do you color correct in post all the time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pulcinella View Post
... I feel that it can help achieve the so-called film look that so many strive for, but I was wondering if you or anyone else had any advice on aperture, frame rate or other settings with regard to the BRIGHTNESS of the images.

Thanks again in advance!
Glad to hear you are unafraid of color correction.

When I moved to the A1, I was surprised at the poorer low light performance but I was coming from SD which was par for the course... the HDV sensor has smaller receptors.

The A1s is supposedly and improvement over the A1.

FIrst off, get yourself one onto one of the presets I mentioned. The preset affects exposure. You can go in and edit the preset and as you change things, you can see the effect on the screen.

I assume you've checked that the ND filters are not engaged and shutter is 180 degrees. 24fps should also give you better low light performance. Alternatively, shooting in 60i mode will give you a little better performance. If I recall, +3db gain was OK but +6db gain was too far.

Barring that, you need to think about adding light somehow.
Les Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2011, 06:05 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ridley Park, PA, USA
Posts: 269
Re: Do you color correct in post all the time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Wilson View Post
Glad to hear you are unafraid of color correction.

When I moved to the A1, I was surprised at the poorer low light performance but I was coming from SD which was par for the course... the HDV sensor has smaller receptors.

The A1s is supposedly and improvement over the A1.

FIrst off, get yourself one onto one of the presets I mentioned. The preset affects exposure. You can go in and edit the preset and as you change things, you can see the effect on the screen.

I assume you've checked that the ND filters are not engaged and shutter is 180 degrees. 24fps should also give you better low light performance. Alternatively, shooting in 60i mode will give you a little better performance. If I recall, +3db gain was OK but +6db gain was too far.

Barring that, you need to think about adding light somehow.
Thanks Les.

Yes, I do add let whenever I can.

I understand most of what you are talking about except for one thing.

Could you explain what you mean by "the shutter is 180 degrees"?
__________________
http://mikepulcinella.com/portfolio.htm
Check out my work!
Michael Pulcinella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2011, 06:26 AM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 2,979
Re: Do you color correct in post all the time?

The shooting mode such as 1080p30 defines resolution (1920x1080), how the scan lines are handled (progressive), and the rate at which the shutter opens (30 times per second). The camera's shutter speed is amount of time between those shutter openings that the shutter stays open. In this example, it can stay open up to 1/30th of a second.

The shutter speed affects the way motion looks. For normal shooting, it's recommended to have a shutter speed between 1/48 and 1/60. So for 24p, a 1/48 shutter speed, for 30p, 1/60, etc. Rather than setting the speed explicitly, an alternative way to specify it is by stating the number of degrees in a circle that the shutter is open. It's based on the mechanical way shutters worked in film cameras. It's handy because you can set the shutter speed once to say 180 degrees and not have to modify it when you change between 24p, 30p, 60i, etc

A better explanation and why these are the recommended speeds can be found here:
Shutter, shutter speed and shutter angle. | XDCAM-USER.COM
Les Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2011, 07:24 AM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ridley Park, PA, USA
Posts: 269
Re: Do you color correct in post all the time?

Thanks for taking the time to explain this, Les. I really appreciate it! Going to check out the link now!
__________________
http://mikepulcinella.com/portfolio.htm
Check out my work!
Michael Pulcinella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2011, 08:23 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 244
Re: Do you color correct in post all the time?

Hi

As you are a new user of the XH-A1, regarding your experience of a dark, i feel I must inform you about the ND filters on the XH-A1. Can it be so that you have activated the ND filter accidenly? I have one HV20 and one XH-A1 and the XH-A1 is much more sensitive to light than the HV models. Also note that some of the custom scene files makes the picture darker by adjusting the parameters for black level, gamma, master pedestal and setup level. Changing these parameters and/or change to another scen file can make the recorded image lighter.

Regards,

/Bo
Bo Sundvall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2011, 11:48 AM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ridley Park, PA, USA
Posts: 269
Re: Do you color correct in post all the time?

Thanks Bo!

I once made the ND mistake on my first GL2 and I will NEVER make that mistake again!

I am currently experimenting with the custom presets and getting better results.
__________________
http://mikepulcinella.com/portfolio.htm
Check out my work!
Michael Pulcinella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2011, 07:02 PM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ridley Park, PA, USA
Posts: 269
Re: Do you color correct in post all the time?

Thanks everyone! I have now created my own custom preset, thanks to the advice I got here, and I am now much happier with my XH A1s!
__________________
http://mikepulcinella.com/portfolio.htm
Check out my work!
Michael Pulcinella is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:34 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network