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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
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Old December 12th, 2011, 04:06 PM   #1
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White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

I did a shoot last week, and using the SD card, matched up settings on 2 (identical) XHA1s cameras. I set both of them on manual white balance at 2800K As you can see, the 2 cameras appear to be off still. Any ideas on what may have caused this, and suggestions on getting a solid white balance on 2 cameras in the future?
Thanks!
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White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)-gys-1.jpg   White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)-gys-2.jpg  

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Old December 12th, 2011, 05:05 PM   #2
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

David .. we've seen this between my A1 and A1s cameras on a dual shoot.

My solution was to eventually get 2 neutral expodiscs, started with one but it took to long to wb both cameras, so after trying it we now have 2 and one warm one .. not cheap but they're absolute magic in mixed lighting, we never leave home without 'em. Saves hours in post.

ExpoImaging, Inc.

I did read where you should buy a large one to fit all your big lens but it doesn't work with a lens hood on. Stay well away from the cheapies on Ebay. HTH.

Cheers.
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Old December 12th, 2011, 09:21 PM   #3
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

The video they have shows the guy pointing at his light source and getting custom balance.... how have you handled that with your A1s? We also do performances that use stage lighting, and have begun trying to set the cameras at 3100-3200K to make sure that the true white of the lights makes everything else accurate.

I actually brought my T2i sDSLR out and before it started got a good white balance at the front of about 2700K... I never could match it with the cameras. I realized that I actually had dropped them down to 2000K and one was stil seemingly off.

Thanks for the advise! I had never heard of an expodisc.
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Old December 13th, 2011, 04:05 AM   #4
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

That expodisc site certainly has changed or improved since I first saw it about 2 years ago. Basically the same adv message with more product and detail.

We frame both cameras on the same scene, clip the expodiscs on each lens then perform a custom WB on each camera. We do this every time we change scenes/light .. if it's a fairly quick move, the expodiscs are used as short term lens caps. They also come with handy pouches which clip on to your belt.

I notice that our 'warm' expodisc is now called 'Portrait' .. same specs. We use that for indoor talking heads and interviews where the light usually remains constant and we have time to set up using one disc.

Cheers.
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Old December 13th, 2011, 09:56 AM   #5
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

At least on my PC monitor it looks like the exposures are slightly different as well causing one slightly brighter than the other. Was this using full manual setting? What gain settings? Any presets turned on in the camcorders?
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Old December 13th, 2011, 02:37 PM   #6
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

These were on full manual, and to the best of my knowledge... they were set on the same preset, I generally use Truecolor; although thinking of trying one that doesn't give such strong saturation. Gain was set on 0
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Old December 13th, 2011, 02:39 PM   #7
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

Interesting Allan, so rather than receiving light as on still ca,meras, you are pointing towards the action as usual, and getting the WB. That may really be worth our while! Thanks again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Black View Post
...We frame both cameras on the same scene, clip the expodiscs on each lens then perform a custom WB on each camera. We do this every time we change scenes/light .. if it's a fairly quick move, the expodiscs are used as short term lens caps. They also come with handy pouches which clip on to your belt...
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Old December 13th, 2011, 06:23 PM   #8
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

David, yep that's how we do it.

I still can't understand folk saying, you point the video camera at the light 'source' then perform a custom wb, what's that about.

It's the light that falls on the scene which controls the degree of colour, and 'white' .. that the video camera responds to.

With 2 cams, both should frame exactly the same scene, then perform the correct custom wb with their expodiscs in place.

If not, colour matching in post is a nightmare and from my early experience I could never get it exactly right.

And it's a huge distraction to getting a creative job done, I usually ended up saying .. stuff it! that's close enough! .. :)

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Last edited by Allan Black; December 13th, 2011 at 11:43 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old December 15th, 2011, 01:56 PM   #9
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

Is it a good idea to white balance with presets on? I never use presets indoors anyway, but it is possible to have two supposedly same presets, but with different adjustments made to them. Just a thought.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 11:06 PM   #10
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

David you have one setting different between the two cameras. Spend some time and slowly compare every and all settings.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 02:33 AM   #11
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

I"m using a expodisc as well, much easier then dragging white or grey cards around, just clip the disc on the lens, stand on the location that you are filming and point towards the place where your camera will be (if that's a fixed location) and do a white balance, done. Works particular well when you are working under time pressure.
If I"m moving around I"m pointing at the lightsource which at that moment is most dominant and that can differ in one and the same location, I just re white balance when necessary.

One thing I find strange though is that you get a white balance shift between 2 the same camera's that are also set the same, that should normally not be happening and I think a expodisc will not solve that.

I would check your camera's setting real close by diving deep into the menu's and comparing every value, do some wb test without a preset and see what that gives and if it's still off there must be a difference in set up. Maybe this can be of help to compare?
Aktionen : XHTuner - slashCAM freeware tool for finetuning the Canon XH A1 and XH G1: Einleitung / System Requirements / Installation / Licence / Instructions
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Old December 16th, 2011, 07:51 AM   #12
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

If the images are the same point in time, the cameras are not at the same location, they are offset by some sustantial amount.

White balance can be effected by stray light hitting the lens but still out of the field of view, especially if the white balance was set based on light hitting a disc on the lens that is not equally hitting the intended scene. Were there lights (spot, floor, or area) above the camcorders than might not have influenced the otheer camcorder expodisc or stage equally?
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Old December 16th, 2011, 09:11 AM   #13
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

Hi

UV (or another) filter on one of the camcorders and not on the other?


Regards,

/Bo
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Old December 16th, 2011, 04:39 PM   #14
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

I really appreciate all of the input everyone, I'll go through a little later and double check. I had another shoot this past Monday and Tuesday, and did a manual white balance on both, and that seemed to really help. My concern has been that using the custom Kelvin temp setting, on both cameras were looking different. Now, there's a chance that perhaps one of the camera's custom presets got turned off accidentally; which could have explained the difference as well.

It would be nice to be able to set a custom temperature; but only if it really matched the light source at least on fixed lighting!
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Old December 16th, 2011, 04:42 PM   #15
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Re: White Balance issue on 2 cameras (pointed at the same thing...)

Thanks for this link Noa,
I use Macs; but do have a PC, may be working taking a look see! Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
...I would check your camera's setting real close by diving deep into the menu's and comparing every value, do some wb test without a preset and see what that gives and if it's still off there must be a difference in set up. Maybe this can be of help to compare?
Aktionen : XHTuner - slashCAM freeware tool for finetuning the Canon XH A1 and XH G1: Einleitung / System Requirements / Installation / Licence / Instructions
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