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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old May 12th, 2012, 08:14 PM   #1
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Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 & XHA1

Anyone using the HyperDeck 2 with the XHA1?
I talked to the guys at BH Photo and this is the set up they recommend:

KanexPro Component to HDMI Audio/Video Converter RGBRLHD B&H


Blackmagic Design HyperDeck Shuttle 2 SSD Video HYPERD/PT2 B&H


CRM4256SSD

Tekkeon myPower ALL Plus MP3450i Battery (5-19V) MP3450I B&H

Total price $777.69

They say the Avid DNxHD 200x 10-Bit Codec is way better that than the HDV codec, I just haven't been able
to find any actual comparisons.
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Old May 13th, 2012, 12:25 AM   #2
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Re: Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 & XHA1

Noise is what takes the advantage of 10bit away. However, a higher bitrate is still beneficial for later on down the line in terms of post production.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 04:20 PM   #3
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Re: Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 & XHA1

Bill,

Did you ever commit to this config? If so, are you pleased with it? I am also trying to get more life out of my XH-A1 and looking for something less expensive than the AJA products.

Thanks,
dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Thesken View Post
Anyone using the HyperDeck 2 with the XHA1?
I talked to the guys at BH Photo and this is the set up they recommend:

KanexPro Component to HDMI Audio/Video Converter RGBRLHD B&H


Blackmagic Design HyperDeck Shuttle 2 SSD Video HYPERD/PT2 B&H


CRM4256SSD

Tekkeon myPower ALL Plus MP3450i Battery (5-19V) MP3450I B&H

Total price $777.69

They say the Avid DNxHD 200x 10-Bit Codec is way better that than the HDV codec, I just haven't been able
to find any actual comparisons.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 05:07 PM   #4
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Re: Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 & XHA1

Dave, I'm leaning towards the Ninja2. It's available on July 10. I think I've fried the video head, but the camera still works perfect if I record straight firewire to the computer.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 01:33 AM   #5
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Re: Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 & XHA1

I use the Black magic SDI converter, works fine.

Blackmagic Design Mini Converter Analog to SDI CONVMAAS2 B&H
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Old October 7th, 2012, 05:34 PM   #6
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Re: Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 & XHA1

Regarding the Black Magic Mini Converter from Analog to SDI - how is the noise level in the conversion? I tried a Ninja 2 with a Startech (Warning - the Kanex Pro is really buggy and may not work if readers want to go that way) and found that the noise generated in the conversion process negated the benefits of the 422 and ProRes. I also tried another brand, and got the same results. Same guts, I imagine.

Anyhow, I'm considering a Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle with BlackMagic converter to see if things work out better than the Atomos.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 09:18 PM   #7
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Re: Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 & XHA1

I have tried the XH-A1 component to capture uncompressed 10 bit.

I must say, unless I am doing something majorly wrong, after all I spent to get the XH-A1 component to SDI to Shuttledeck to MAC to FCP, I notice NO difference in image quality at all compared to capture from the simultaneous HDV tape, in fact there is very slight but acceptable noise in the 10 bit. Anyone else try this? Either the XH-A1 component is NOT uncompressed, or the HDV off tape is as good a quality as uncompressed, which means none of this gear was necessary in the first place. Looking at the frames of both at 200% and 400%, there is nothing perceptible that would indicate a better key being pulled from the uncompressed. I tried all capture codecs on the Hyperdeck Shuttle, and no difference.

XH-A1, clip shot in 60i
Component out to Blackmagic mini converter (analog to SDI) by using
Laird Red One Camera 3G SDI DIN 1.0/2.3 to BNC cable to
Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 onto
Sandisk Extreme SSD 480G into
FCP

Sequence in FCP using uncompressed 10 bit
Then I capture same clip from XH-A1 tape, sequence = HDV1080i

I did make sure the 10 bit sequence is set to render 10 bit material in high precision.

Any ideas? THANKS!
Michael
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Old August 5th, 2013, 03:54 PM   #8
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Re: Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 & XHA1

There's a chart on page 97 of the XH-A1 manual and on page 79 of the XH-A1S manual regarding output from various ports of the camera. Nowhere do I see uncompressed output mentioned. The 1440 by 1080 mentioned makes me think the output is the same quality as the HDV out the firewire port. I could be wrong. The XH-G1 and XH-G1S mention 1920 by 1080 in the chart, but still don't state uncompressed.

Furthermore, on page 78 of the XH-A1s/G1s manual it states that "video output from the HD/ Sd SDI terminal will be a signal modified from the HDV video." That seems to say that even the SDI terminal looks to be no better than the firewire output.

So I doubt uncompressed output is available from the camera at all. Sorry. It would be nice. I have both an A1 and an A1S.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 06:41 PM   #9
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Re: Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 & XHA1

Thanks Roger so much for the reply. I really appreciate it, and feel like I am at a dead end with this. I had gotten most of my thoughts on this from other blogs. BUT on page 78 of the A1s manual, just above where you read about the signal being modified HDV, it does say the the SDI terminal form the G1s "will be an uncompressed HD, YPbPr signal." So in other words, the SDI out and I assume the component outs on the G1 are HDV modified when playing back a tape, BUT will output uncompressed if you capture live. Then some have said all this (except SDI output) is also true with the A1 (compressions and less-artifact wise, even though the A1s will remain 1440 and not 1920.) I am tending to agree with you as I have tried every configuration I can think of, and can see no difference. I got all this gear from B&H, and they are good about returns, of which I have had VERY few, but this was a lot of stuff. Thanks again!

MIchael
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Old August 5th, 2013, 07:42 PM   #10
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Re: Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 & XHA1

Oh yeah. I see it does say uncompressed and also unchanged right below it while recording. Tired eyes. But that whole section does have that black block saying XHG1s, so it might not apply to the A1s, but to the G1s only. Otherwise, why put that black block saying XHG1s there anyway? Furthermore, in the footnote it says XHG1s only.That would certainly explain why you don't see any difference with your A1. Nowhere does it emphatically say the XHA1s sends uncompressed out.

The manual really isn't clear enough. It's really ambiguous. Even guys at Canon might be confused about it. Not everyone working in technical service jobs have the same level of technical expertise and experience with a particular piece of tech. You could try shooting both ways one of those fancy printed cards designed to test camera resolution. Those cards aren't exactly cheap. I guess someone doing camera reviews for a living would be wise to buy one. Maybe someone online has already done a test? Don't know.

But you know, the A1s give a really pleasing image when used properly in decent light. I've worked with another guy who had an XF-105 and an XF-305. When we shot in the same room at the same time using the same settings, the images from his cameras and mine were essentially the same. I couldn't tell the difference between any of the four cameras, with my eyes, hooked to a 32 inch lcd that he had there. Of course scopes would probably reveal some difference. But my eyes didn't, so I knew I couldn't financially justify upgrading to new expensive cameras until my A1 and A1s wear out. Not unless some unexpected windfall comes in.
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Old August 5th, 2013, 09:21 PM   #11
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Re: Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 & XHA1

Hi Roger - You are totally correct, it only does apply this information to the G1 in the book, so I have no reason to think it applies to the A1, other than the other blogs. I do agree with you that it must not, but I'll tell you, if you ever feel like taking the time to look at other blogs, there sure are a lot of folk that have SAID they have captured the uncompressed form the A1 and can't believe how nice it looks, and how much nicer the keys come out. That is really the only reason I decided to look into this. I get very good keys from the A1, but sometimes it takes forever to get there. I was just thinking that the extra resolution on the edges may really make a difference in getting them cleaner in much less time. I am happy with my A1 too, have had it about 4 years. The close ups are stunningly good. Only time I notice more artifacts is on a distant subject. Can't be made much larger in editing (scaled up) without quite a of artifacts. Thanks again for your replies, I appreciate anyone who is willing to take the time. Let me know if you may have any other ideas.

Here is one link I was talking about, where so many seem positive we can get uncompressed HD from component. BUT so many of these post are ancient.

http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5060
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Old August 6th, 2013, 08:13 AM   #12
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Re: Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 & XHA1

What we think we see isn't always correct. Maybe they were just seeing excellent images from the camera that had nothing to do with the extra equipment. It's hard to say. Wishful thinking can be pretty powerful. I've been fooled myself many times.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 09:37 AM   #13
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Re: Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle 2 & XHA1

You are right. I am happy with the A1 with my current project. If I need more in the future, I'll go with something else. Even the G1's are coming down in price by now, and that will give me what I am talking about anyhow.

Thanks!

Michael
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