XH-A1 playback issue question. Please Help

Roger Van Duyn · August 24th, 2012, 09:26 AM

Any technology can fail. I used to work in labs where some of the equipment cost more than my house, and instruments would go down for various reasons. So, I learned the value of redundancy.

I shoot both to tape and an external recorder with my Canon XH-A1S and older Canon XH-A1. I've experienced occasional tape problems, and occasional problems with the recorder, but thankfully, both have never failed at the same time.

Lately, I've begun to suspect that quality control is starting to slip in the manufacturing process of the tapes. In a previous batch of 20 (Sony) tapes, 4 boxes of 5, I had two bad tapes. Both were from the same box. I don't know if the "batch" of twenty I bought all came from the same manufactured "batch." However, since the two tapes came from the same box, they were from the same batch.

I had switched from Panasonic to Sony back in 2008 because of several tape failures. I went almost a full three years until the same thing happened with Sony. Now, it's been more than a year without the problem recurring. I suspect your 3 bad tapes all came from the same manufacturing batch and slipped through whatever QC checks Panasonic employs at their plant.

Don Palomaki · August 27th, 2012, 03:48 AM

Quote:

The playback problem occurs in the same place on each tape. I have tried the tapes in my other XHA1 and 2 different HV30's. Same problem in the same place on each tape.

Sounds like bad batch of tape. That it is on several tapes at the same point implies a manufacturing defect in the sheet from which the tapes were cut. (Tape is produced in wide sheets and then split to width, several tapes coming from the same sheet.

Higher priced tape within the same product line and source should have better quality control, but nothing is 100%.

Bill Thesken · August 27th, 2012, 02:35 PM

I've been having the same problem. I bought my last 5 pack of tapes about 4 months ago, and the camera started glitching. I thought it was just the camera, but now I'm not so sure. All 5 of the new tapes have the playback issue. Never had the problem before. It happens at random times, 60i, 30F, Maual, Auto, AV. Out of the 5 tapes I had about 1/4 with the glitch. It could be a bad batch. I may buy one new tape just to check, but I can't trust tapes anymore, I lost too much time and good footage. I put the camera on the shelf and am checking around for an external recorder so I can use the camera again with confidence.
I've used the same Sony tapes for 4 years and have been through about 35 of them.
The first photo has the bad 2012 tape on the right and a good 2008 tape on the left. Looks like the design has changed. The second photo is also from an '08 tape. Can anyone else compare the design of their tapes with these photos?

Noa Put · August 27th, 2012, 02:50 PM

I guess this problem will only get worse, maybe because some major suppliers that produced tapes in the past, and that did extensive quality control, have stopped producing and production has shifted to "cheaper" supplier that don't invest that much in quality control anymore? Maybe buying and using cheaper materials to save on cost, make more profit.

An external recorder is by far the best solution, I stopped trusting tapes some years ago.

Don Palomaki · August 27th, 2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

I stopped trusting tapes some years ago.

FWIW: tape is still the preferred back-up media for data, and for archive purposes. It is boring and it works.

Tapes do tend to have dropouts, However, one can usually edit around a drop out.
Bit it is unusual for a tape to fail totally. (On the other hadn user failure - e.g., failure to do maintenance on the camcorder or to spot check tape performance during use, is common.)

I have encountered enough issues with SDHC/CF memory to trust them less than I trust tape. Tough to edit around a failed SDHC/CF card.

Jay Jelliff · September 5th, 2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Soucy

It is possible, if occurances become more and more often, that it indicates a pinch roller wear problem or other issue with the deck, but I've never seen a documented instance where that has definitely been fingered as the culprit.

CS

Sent the camera to Canon. It was a BAD PINCH ROLLER. So, Chris....there's your first documented instance as this the culprit.

Chris Soucy · September 6th, 2012, 11:41 PM

Well, stuff me, it's been proved, yipee!

Someone's finally nailed another reason for this problem and actually documented it here on DVinfo.

You cannot imagine how pleased I am to hear, er, see, that the worn pinch roller scenario is true.

I think you should ask the mods to rename this thread "Worn pinch roller results in BSOD" or similar so it can be found, hey, these cameras will be around for years yet.

Heck, I've got 4 of them, and they aren't going anywhere, anytime soon.

Bloody well done, Jay, for reporting back here with that news, greatly appreciaed, by me especially, as I've taken such a keen interest in this problem since I first became aware of it.

Glad you've got a working camera back.

CS

Brian Carlisle · September 7th, 2012, 06:52 AM

I had what looks like the same problem. I sent it to Canon and got it back a few weeks ago. They indicated on the paperwork that it was a misaligned tape path.

The repair cost was about $250.00.

August 24th, 2012, 09:26 AM	#16
Roger Van Duyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lakeland Florida Posts: 690	Re: XH-A1 playback issue question. Please Help Any technology can fail. I used to work in labs where some of the equipment cost more than my house, and instruments would go down for various reasons. So, I learned the value of redundancy. I shoot both to tape and an external recorder with my Canon XH-A1S and older Canon XH-A1. I've experienced occasional tape problems, and occasional problems with the recorder, but thankfully, both have never failed at the same time. Lately, I've begun to suspect that quality control is starting to slip in the manufacturing process of the tapes. In a previous batch of 20 (Sony) tapes, 4 boxes of 5, I had two bad tapes. Both were from the same box. I don't know if the "batch" of twenty I bought all came from the same manufactured "batch." However, since the two tapes came from the same box, they were from the same batch. I had switched from Panasonic to Sony back in 2008 because of several tape failures. I went almost a full three years until the same thing happened with Sony. Now, it's been more than a year without the problem recurring. I suspect your 3 bad tapes all came from the same manufacturing batch and slipped through whatever QC checks Panasonic employs at their plant. __________________ Roger My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAp...2AHr_pHFID5LDA Last edited by Roger Van Duyn; August 24th, 2012 at 09:27 AM. Reason: typos

August 27th, 2012, 02:35 PM	#18
Bill Thesken Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: HI, USA Posts: 622	Re: XH-A1 playback issue question. Please Help I've been having the same problem. I bought my last 5 pack of tapes about 4 months ago, and the camera started glitching. I thought it was just the camera, but now I'm not so sure. All 5 of the new tapes have the playback issue. Never had the problem before. It happens at random times, 60i, 30F, Maual, Auto, AV. Out of the 5 tapes I had about 1/4 with the glitch. It could be a bad batch. I may buy one new tape just to check, but I can't trust tapes anymore, I lost too much time and good footage. I put the camera on the shelf and am checking around for an external recorder so I can use the camera again with confidence. I've used the same Sony tapes for 4 years and have been through about 35 of them. The first photo has the bad 2012 tape on the right and a good 2008 tape on the left. Looks like the design has changed. The second photo is also from an '08 tape. Can anyone else compare the design of their tapes with these photos? XHA1 defective footage - YouTube Attached Thumbnails

August 27th, 2012, 02:50 PM	#19
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: XH-A1 playback issue question. Please Help I guess this problem will only get worse, maybe because some major suppliers that produced tapes in the past, and that did extensive quality control, have stopped producing and production has shifted to "cheaper" supplier that don't invest that much in quality control anymore? Maybe buying and using cheaper materials to save on cost, make more profit. An external recorder is by far the best solution, I stopped trusting tapes some years ago.

September 6th, 2012, 11:41 PM	#22
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,682 Images: 18	Re: XH-A1 playback issue question. Please Help Well, stuff me, it's been proved, yipee! Someone's finally nailed another reason for this problem and actually documented it here on DVinfo. You cannot imagine how pleased I am to hear, er, see, that the worn pinch roller scenario is true. I think you should ask the mods to rename this thread "Worn pinch roller results in BSOD" or similar so it can be found, hey, these cameras will be around for years yet. Heck, I've got 4 of them, and they aren't going anywhere, anytime soon. Bloody well done, Jay, for reporting back here with that news, greatly appreciaed, by me especially, as I've taken such a keen interest in this problem since I first became aware of it. Glad you've got a working camera back. CS

September 7th, 2012, 06:52 AM	#23
Brian Carlisle Tourist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Newburgh Maine Posts: 1	Re: XH-A1 playback issue question. Please Help I had what looks like the same problem. I sent it to Canon and got it back a few weeks ago. They indicated on the paperwork that it was a misaligned tape path. The repair cost was about $250.00.