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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old August 24th, 2006, 08:50 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ziegelheim
...what you are saying is that these cameras are all with in 10-20% of each other. And with different strengths and weaknesses, it all averages out.
Yes and no. The most impartial reviews of all these cameras conclude that they each have strengths and weaknesses which mean there isn't one clear "best" one for all users and all purposes. But if you want to talk numbers, the XL-H1 has resolution up to 50% better than the HVX200 and can deliver roughly 15 times the data bandwidth via HD-SDI, while the HVX200 can record up to 4X the bandwidth that the XL-H1 sends to HDV tape. So depending on what you want to do, that may all even out or it may not, and the only way to decide what works for you is to either test the cameras yourself or look carefully at an assortment of sample footage.
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Old August 24th, 2006, 09:48 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw
Yes and no. The most impartial reviews of all these cameras conclude that they each have strengths and weaknesses which mean there isn't one clear "best" one for all users and all purposes. But if you want to talk numbers, the XL-H1 has resolution up to 50% better than the HVX200 and can deliver roughly 15 times the data bandwidth via HD-SDI, while the HVX200 can record up to 4X the bandwidth that the XL-H1 sends to HDV tape. So depending on what you want to do, that may all even out or it may not, and the only way to decide what works for you is to either test the cameras yourself or look carefully at an assortment of sample footage.
Which brings up the question, how does HD-SDI (on the H1 and yet to be released G1 and HD250) compare with HD component (most cameras support both 1080i and 720p) on the others?

Panasonic did a table that took the four sensors (960x540p, 1280x720p, 960x1080i, and 1440x1080i), and applied two factors: 1.5x for green shift (h and v on sensor 1, h on 3 and 4) and 70% vertical resolution on interlaced sensors. This resulted in 1440x810, 1280x720, 1440x756. and 2160x756 respectively. However, the recording formats are 1440x1080 Y for 3 and 4, 1280x720 Y for 2 and 960x720 Y for 1. And the chroma sampling was effectively 720x540 for 3 and 4, 640x360 for 2 and 480x720 for 1.

The Steve Mullen article that Barlow referenced indicated that in their native storage mechanisim (HDV and DVCProHD), the chroma samples recorded are below the resolution of the CCDs, and comparable between the formats. In that analysis, coupling the sensors with the recording format yields rather similar recorded resolutions.

If this information was valid, the recorded information would be between 1440x756 and 1280x720, about 15%. However the chroma sampling may favor the 1080i recording format. None of this deals with motion compression though. Or dynamic range net of compression.

Personally, I would love to see direct to Cineform recording in the camera. If that was a $3k option on the A1 (a C1?), would you buy it over a G1?

Is there a way to objectively measure the lens differences between the cameras?

Last edited by David Ziegelheim; August 24th, 2006 at 10:18 PM.
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Old August 25th, 2006, 12:26 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by David Ziegelheim
Panasonic did a table that took the four sensors (960x540p, 1280x720p, 960x1080i, and 1440x1080i), and applied two factors: 1.5x for green shift (h and v on sensor 1, h on 3 and 4) and 70% vertical resolution on interlaced sensors. This resulted in 1440x810, 1280x720, 1440x756. and 2160x756 respectively. However, the recording formats are 1440x1080 Y for 3 and 4, 1280x720 Y for 2 and 960x720 Y for 1. And the chroma sampling was effectively 720x540 for 3 and 4, 640x360 for 2 and 480x720 for 1.
None of this is relevant. None of this has any bearing whatsoever on "image quality." Image quality is determined solely by the person operating the camera. All that matters is where and how you point the camera. Forget this numbers nonsense and test the cameras yourself, as Kevin suggests above. Actual hands-on time is the only way you can make a logical determination about which one to buy. You're not accomplishing anything by spouting numbers and tech specs on an internet message board... in fact it's highly counterproductive.

I think this topic has outlived its original purpose. Let's please move forward with discussions that are more appropriate to this community, as in how to use this gear and what are we creating with it. Enough of this pointless "which one is better" crap. Thanks in advance,
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