Canon XH A1/G1 vs. JVC GY-HD110U at DVinfo.net

Joseph Olesh · August 19th, 2006, 05:19 PM

i am on the fence on which of the two to purchase. both seem relatively similar, but maybe i am missing something. right now i am leaning towards the canon XH series. any suggestions or thoughts???

realizing we can't know too much about the XH series, what are some thoughts on canon vs. jvc vs. panasonic?? any info or thoughts would be greatly appreciated...

Bob Zimmerman · August 19th, 2006, 05:41 PM

at this point I'm going with the Canon A1. Never care much for the JVC. Maybe Panasonic or Sony will do something soon.

Zack Vohaska · August 19th, 2006, 05:52 PM

Well, the XHA1/G1 is essentially the same as the XLH1 ... same DIGIC II processing, same censor...the 20x zoom lenses seem identical, except the XH-series lens is fixed. I guess if you like the images the XLH1 produces, and you like the form factor of the FX1/Z1, go with Canon. JVC...it's a nice camera, but there's nothing earthshattering about it.

Chris Hurd · August 19th, 2006, 05:59 PM

Choose your format, then choose your camera. The prices might be similar but they are completely different systems... 720p vs. 1080i, interchangeable broadcast video lenses vs. fixed built-in zoom lens, etc.

Pete Bauer · August 19th, 2006, 06:06 PM

Just a small clarification: the XH cameras and the XL H1 lens are both 20x, but not the same lenses. Different number of elements and groupings than the XL lens. The XH cameras go a bit wider, and not quite as long.

http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/xhfaq.php
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....0&postcount=78

Joseph Olesh · August 19th, 2006, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Choose your format, then choose your camera. The prices might be similar but they are completely different systems... 720p vs. 1080i, interchangeable broadcast video lenses vs. fixed built-in zoom lens, etc.

i am an independant filmmaker looking to shoot primarily in 24f in hd. it would be nice to find a camera that provides that hi-def, "film-look" and could handle lower light conditions.

Dan Keaton · August 19th, 2006, 07:35 PM

I have been most impressed with Canon's XL H1 low light performance.

I based this on a comparison with the XL1s. The XL H1, in my opinion, is definitely better. This was a big surprise to me as I expected it to be worse.

Barlow Elton · August 20th, 2006, 09:45 AM

I like the JVC a lot, but the issue of choosing formats isn't quite so simple from my viewpoint. I've done a lot of testing and conversions comparing footage from both cameras, and IMHO Canon HDV is more multi-format friendly if you know what you're doing. HDV 24F looks pretty dang good as 1080 24p, and it's simply phenomenally sharp and crisp in the 720 frame, with even more color sampling comparatively due to the 4:2:0 of a 1080 frame converted to 720.

1080i also converts VERY well to 720 60p by a number of post methods, and I think that is due to the extra horizontal resolution of the format.

To be fair, JVC 720 24p faired pretty well bumped up to the 1080 frame, but it didn't look nearly as sharp as Canon 24F can look.

These cameras are all mish-mash of compromises so look at the footage posted and decide what camera's look you like best and then consider the tradeoffs (fixed lens vs. interchangeable, etc.) and make your move.

Joseph Olesh · August 20th, 2006, 11:58 AM

thanks for the note. that does help quite a bit.

Chuck Fadely · August 22nd, 2006, 09:08 AM

I've shot with both a JVC HD100 and a Canon XLH1, and with Sony Z1U, which will be similar in form factor to the new Canons coming out.

The biggest difference between them is ergonomics -- the image from all can be tweaked every which way, depending on what you want.

The JVC has the best ergonomics -- you can learn to operate it by touch in only a short time. The controls make sense. The lens is all manual. If you are more comfortable with an all-manual camera you will be very happy. The shoulder-mount balance is not great but is way better than the Canon.

The little A1 camera, however, has the top-mount lcd and handle which makes low shots really easy. It's easy to transport. It's lighter. It's less intimidating. It travels more easily. It will be easier to use in tight spots or from weird angles. It is, however, harder to hand-hold.

So it depends on your needs. For travel and run-and-gun, the new smaller Canons would probably be better. For shoulder-mount hand held doc work, get the JVC. If you're shooting a narrative locked on a 'pod, the JVC probably wins, unless you need the 20x zoom on the Canon and don't have the scratch for a different lens on the JVC.

The biggest factor, however, is editing: if you really want 24p, you probably need to figure out your editing workflow before picking the camera.

Chuck

Aaron Frick · August 22nd, 2006, 10:27 AM

I still love the JVC. The problem I have with the new Canon's is that you lose a lot of resolution when in 24f mode.

Pete Bauer · August 22nd, 2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Frick

The problem I have with the new Canon's is that you lose a lot of resolution when in 24f mode.

For now it provides the highest 24fps image detail of any camera under $20K. Frame Mode is widely known to have a bit less detail than 60i from the XL H1, but still outstanding. Seems to be rare for people actually shooting with the H1 to be unhappy with the image. No reason to think the XH cameras will have less detail, since they use the same sensor and L glass. But that does remain to be seen since the XH cameras aren't out yet.

David Ziegelheim · August 22nd, 2006, 11:14 AM

What is really amazing with this latest generation, is that discussions between the cameras are indeterminate. There is no deciding feature set that makes one the 'must have camera'. The Z1 may even fit in that, although it is maybe a half-generation behind with lower resolution and a 24f mode that is not up to the Canons (based on reviews).

My caveat would be audience dependent. If the target audience is Internet, using current/previous generation HD TVs (1280x720 or 1328x768). or current/next generation HD TVs (1080p). All of the cameras work. All of the cameras are subject to tuning. All of the cameras have compromises.

Another issue would be total cost and features. For example, if you are a PC editor, would $1300 be better spent on ProspectHD? Filters? A 35mm DOF adapter? Or better lighting and grip equipment?

David Ziegelheim · August 22nd, 2006, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

For now it provides the highest 24fps image detail of any camera under $20K. Frame Mode is widely known to have a bit less detail than 60i from the XL H1, but still outstanding. Seems to be rare for people actually shooting with the H1 to be unhappy with the image. No reason to think the XH cameras will have less detail, since they use the same sensor and L glass. But that does remain to be seen since the XH cameras aren't out yet.

The two shoot outs seemed to have the JVC image on top. Examples are "While the Canon was slightly crisper, the JVC rendered a more naturalistic, more alias-free image while yielding only a little ground in terms of raw resolution" from Four Affordable HD Camcorders Compared. In the Texas Shootout! the Canon had the highest resolution, but the JVC had the highest resolution in frame/progressive modes. Chirs Hurd may have more specific input.

However, as stated, all these cameras are good. The A1 is very attractive in a price/feature comparison.

Tim Brown · August 22nd, 2006, 11:41 AM

Pete Bauer would know as well as he was also in attendance at the Texas Shootout.

August 19th, 2006, 05:19 PM	#1
Joseph Olesh Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Washington D.C. Posts: 33	Canon XH A1/G1 vs. JVC GY-HD110U i am on the fence on which of the two to purchase. both seem relatively similar, but maybe i am missing something. right now i am leaning towards the canon XH series. any suggestions or thoughts??? realizing we can't know too much about the XH series, what are some thoughts on canon vs. jvc vs. panasonic?? any info or thoughts would be greatly appreciated...

August 19th, 2006, 05:52 PM	#3
Zack Vohaska Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 74	Well, the XHA1/G1 is essentially the same as the XLH1 ... same DIGIC II processing, same censor...the 20x zoom lenses seem identical, except the XH-series lens is fixed. I guess if you like the images the XLH1 produces, and you like the form factor of the FX1/Z1, go with Canon. JVC...it's a nice camera, but there's nothing earthshattering about it. __________________ -Z-

August 19th, 2006, 05:59 PM	#4
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Choose your format, then choose your camera. The prices might be similar but they are completely different systems... 720p vs. 1080i, interchangeable broadcast video lenses vs. fixed built-in zoom lens, etc. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 19th, 2006, 06:06 PM	#5
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Just a small clarification: the XH cameras and the XL H1 lens are both 20x, but not the same lenses. Different number of elements and groupings than the XL lens. The XH cameras go a bit wider, and not quite as long. http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/xhfaq.php http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....0&postcount=78 __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

August 19th, 2006, 07:35 PM	#7
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	I have been most impressed with Canon's XL H1 low light performance. I based this on a comparison with the XL1s. The XL H1, in my opinion, is definitely better. This was a big surprise to me as I expected it to be worse. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

August 19th, 2006, 05:41 PM	#2
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	at this point I'm going with the Canon A1. Never care much for the JVC. Maybe Panasonic or Sony will do something soon.

August 20th, 2006, 09:45 AM	#8
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	I like the JVC a lot, but the issue of choosing formats isn't quite so simple from my viewpoint. I've done a lot of testing and conversions comparing footage from both cameras, and IMHO Canon HDV is more multi-format friendly if you know what you're doing. HDV 24F looks pretty dang good as 1080 24p, and it's simply phenomenally sharp and crisp in the 720 frame, with even more color sampling comparatively due to the 4:2:0 of a 1080 frame converted to 720. 1080i also converts VERY well to 720 60p by a number of post methods, and I think that is due to the extra horizontal resolution of the format. To be fair, JVC 720 24p faired pretty well bumped up to the 1080 frame, but it didn't look nearly as sharp as Canon 24F can look. These cameras are all mish-mash of compromises so look at the footage posted and decide what camera's look you like best and then consider the tradeoffs (fixed lens vs. interchangeable, etc.) and make your move.

August 20th, 2006, 11:58 AM	#9
Joseph Olesh Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Washington D.C. Posts: 33	thanks for the note. that does help quite a bit.

August 22nd, 2006, 09:08 AM	#10
Chuck Fadely Major Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: United States Posts: 306	I've shot with both a JVC HD100 and a Canon XLH1, and with Sony Z1U, which will be similar in form factor to the new Canons coming out. The biggest difference between them is ergonomics -- the image from all can be tweaked every which way, depending on what you want. The JVC has the best ergonomics -- you can learn to operate it by touch in only a short time. The controls make sense. The lens is all manual. If you are more comfortable with an all-manual camera you will be very happy. The shoulder-mount balance is not great but is way better than the Canon. The little A1 camera, however, has the top-mount lcd and handle which makes low shots really easy. It's easy to transport. It's lighter. It's less intimidating. It travels more easily. It will be easier to use in tight spots or from weird angles. It is, however, harder to hand-hold. So it depends on your needs. For travel and run-and-gun, the new smaller Canons would probably be better. For shoulder-mount hand held doc work, get the JVC. If you're shooting a narrative locked on a 'pod, the JVC probably wins, unless you need the 20x zoom on the Canon and don't have the scratch for a different lens on the JVC. The biggest factor, however, is editing: if you really want 24p, you probably need to figure out your editing workflow before picking the camera. Chuck

August 22nd, 2006, 10:27 AM	#11
Aaron Frick Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: New Mexico Posts: 71	I still love the JVC. The problem I have with the new Canon's is that you lose a lot of resolution when in 24f mode. __________________ Land of Enchantment, New Mexico

August 22nd, 2006, 11:14 AM	#13
David Ziegelheim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warren, NJ Posts: 398	What is really amazing with this latest generation, is that discussions between the cameras are indeterminate. There is no deciding feature set that makes one the 'must have camera'. The Z1 may even fit in that, although it is maybe a half-generation behind with lower resolution and a 24f mode that is not up to the Canons (based on reviews). My caveat would be audience dependent. If the target audience is Internet, using current/previous generation HD TVs (1280x720 or 1328x768). or current/next generation HD TVs (1080p). All of the cameras work. All of the cameras are subject to tuning. All of the cameras have compromises. Another issue would be total cost and features. For example, if you are a PC editor, would $1300 be better spent on ProspectHD? Filters? A 35mm DOF adapter? Or better lighting and grip equipment?

August 22nd, 2006, 11:41 AM	#15
Tim Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 263	Pete Bauer would know as well as he was also in attendance at the Texas Shootout.