Advantage to SDI capture? was: Couple of questions

Jim Feldspar · October 22nd, 2006, 09:00 AM

Jay, it sounds like you're doing mostly shots without people in them but
because you're on an island - if you ever need an actor I know one who
lives on Nantucket and is absolutely fantastic and who would also know
many other actors on the island, so if I can help you at all in that
department just let me know.

I'm new so I know this is dumb but just so I understand; is the A1
component out SD video?

"I will have the ability with a little effort and more money to use the
same camera to get the job"

What extra "effort" and "money" (another deck?)
would you be required to do to utilizize the component out? Thanks.

Jay Stebbins · October 22nd, 2006, 11:21 AM

Jim,

Go through this thread and pay particular attention to Barlow Elton, Thomas Smet and Chris Hurd; as their explanations put most the pieces together. Actually it is kinda like reading Greek. But a quick answer about the composite analog datastream on the A1 is it is HD, nearly 1.4 Gbps.

Barlow emphasizes that the Canon HDV codec should not be disregarded, as Chris Hurd seems to make the same argument. Supposedly the Canon HDV codec offers excellent quality. And that quality will will be ample for the normal scene. Thomas argues to convert the HDV to a lesser compressed codec upon capture (DVCPROHD 1080i) to make the editing go smoother and re-compression issues.

I think, these guys might be right and HDV is a perfectly fine codec for the capture of the average scene. That uncompressed capture is expensive and unnecessary.

Some say the HDV although great for capture and simple edits, it can become bogged down during more complex editing. So conversion to a more editing friendly codec is advised, like DVCPROHD 1080i (for FCP users) and Cineform (for PC users). Final delivery is in what ever codec/format you intend.

I also believe, for my purposes, capturing and storing uncompressed footage is unnecessary. But in the rare times where the scene I am shooting is so very complex with detail and movement (lots and lots of data to be compressed to HDV) it might benefit me to capture the uncompressed analog composite feed from the A1 and send it through the necessary hardware to my laptop as DVCPRO 1080i. (I believe the hardware does not exist to do this today, but will bet in 6 months it will be available)

If I was going to be in a studio where it is easier to utilize the professional jackpacks and use multiple cameras. I would pony up and get the G1. But I think for my purposes the A1 will be the perfect camera to cut my teeth on. Honestly though, if it was not for the HD-analog composite connection, I would go with the G1 and still be considering the HVX-200.

In the end I will have a years worth of footage. Some shot in HDV, some uncompressed and captured as DVCPROHD 1080i. All the keeper clips stored on a redundant Raid as DVCPROHD 1080i ready for assembly. I will keep my tapes as archives of everything I shot.

*Actually I wrote this out hoping if there was a flaw in my plans some one would point it out.

Question- to the guys who really know... For a Mac user is there a particular line of digital converters and capture cards I should be looking at?

Jim,

I also have an apartment in the North End, I will be there during the winter. I will be willing to come out and play. Hopefully there are others in the area who need help ad much as I do in all this.

Jay

Barlow Elton · October 22nd, 2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Stebbins

Question- to the guys who really know... For a Mac user is there a particular line of digital converters and capture cards I should be looking at?

I have a Kona LH, but if you're getting one of the newer Macs with PCI Express, consider the Blackmagic HD Extreme card. Everything you need for a grand.

Jay Stebbins · October 22nd, 2006, 12:44 PM

Now the new MacBook Pro, Blackmagic card or Kona Card coupled with this
http://www.mobl.com/expansion/produc...ion/index.html and appropriate harddrive/raid would make a somewhat portable HD-SDI capture solution; Yes?

Barlow Elton · October 22nd, 2006, 02:03 PM

It might work as far as I can tell.

Mathieu Kassovitz · October 23rd, 2006, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Stebbins

Now the new MacBook Pro, Blackmagic card or Kona Card coupled with this
http://www.mobl.com/expansion/produc...ion/index.html and appropriate harddrive/raid would make a somewhat portable HD-SDI capture solution; Yes?

Merci for the tip. Will it work with the Cineform RAW coupled to a laptop, M. David Newman?

Jason Livingston · October 23rd, 2006, 03:02 AM

AFAIK the Kona/Blackmagic cards require either PCI-X or PCI-Express (PCIe) in order to capture/output HD video. The device mentioned above only supports regular PCI (32-bit 33MHz) cards, so it won't work. :(

Expresscard slots use a PCIe x1 connection (in a smaller form factor), so in theory it could support uncompressed HD if an HDSDI Expresscard or a Expresscard-PCIe slot adapter were available... but to my knowledge there aren't any yet.

Mathieu Kassovitz · October 23rd, 2006, 04:13 AM

I also found this but for HDMI access:

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/pro...ity/techspecs/

Any possible professional application, for example, coupled with the new Sony's handheld?

Note: It seems such card doesn't feature any 1080p mode, only 1080 interlaced.

*Edit*

Back to the firewire possibility?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathieu Kassovitz

Apart HD-SDI (uncompressed or not, it isn't the point) as well HDV capture, is there any other way to record or capture 1080/24p or 25p footage, let's say DVCPROHD or JPEG2000 or Cineform RAW (less than 400Mbps) via firewire to a laptop? Timecode and audio embedded? (Aside the Canon's 24f or 25f and the 25 Mbps?)

Jim Feldspar · October 25th, 2006, 12:28 PM

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the info..

One of my jobs is about two minutes from the North End so maybe we
can shoot something some day. If I buy the Viper instead we can have a
shoot-out with it and your A1.

Jay Stebbins · October 25th, 2006, 12:35 PM

winner buys the beer...

Mathieu Kassovitz · October 28th, 2006, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Livingston

AFAIK the Kona/Blackmagic cards require either PCI-X or PCI-Express (PCIe) in order to capture/output HD video. The device mentioned above only supports regular PCI (32-bit 33MHz) cards, so it won't work. :(

Expresscard slots use a PCIe x1 connection (in a smaller form factor), so in theory it could support uncompressed HD if an HDSDI Expresscard or a Expresscard-PCIe slot adapter were available... but to my knowledge there aren't any yet.

http://www.mobl.com/expansion/produc...ion/index.html

And from there?

October 22nd, 2006, 09:00 AM	#46
Jim Feldspar New Boot Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 7	Because you're on Nantucket... Jay, it sounds like you're doing mostly shots without people in them but because you're on an island - if you ever need an actor I know one who lives on Nantucket and is absolutely fantastic and who would also know many other actors on the island, so if I can help you at all in that department just let me know. I'm new so I know this is dumb but just so I understand; is the A1 component out SD video? "I will have the ability with a little effort and more money to use the same camera to get the job" What extra "effort" and "money" (another deck?) would you be required to do to utilizize the component out? Thanks.

October 25th, 2006, 12:28 PM	#54
Jim Feldspar New Boot Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 7	Maybe I'll have my camera by then... Hi Jay, Thanks for the info.. One of my jobs is about two minutes from the North End so maybe we can shoot something some day. If I buy the Viper instead we can have a shoot-out with it and your A1.

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October 22nd, 2006, 11:21 AM	#47
Jay Stebbins Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Nantucket MA Posts: 82	Jim, Go through this thread and pay particular attention to Barlow Elton, Thomas Smet and Chris Hurd; as their explanations put most the pieces together. Actually it is kinda like reading Greek. But a quick answer about the composite analog datastream on the A1 is it is HD, nearly 1.4 Gbps. Barlow emphasizes that the Canon HDV codec should not be disregarded, as Chris Hurd seems to make the same argument. Supposedly the Canon HDV codec offers excellent quality. And that quality will will be ample for the normal scene. Thomas argues to convert the HDV to a lesser compressed codec upon capture (DVCPROHD 1080i) to make the editing go smoother and re-compression issues. I think, these guys might be right and HDV is a perfectly fine codec for the capture of the average scene. That uncompressed capture is expensive and unnecessary. Some say the HDV although great for capture and simple edits, it can become bogged down during more complex editing. So conversion to a more editing friendly codec is advised, like DVCPROHD 1080i (for FCP users) and Cineform (for PC users). Final delivery is in what ever codec/format you intend. I also believe, for my purposes, capturing and storing uncompressed footage is unnecessary. But in the rare times where the scene I am shooting is so very complex with detail and movement (lots and lots of data to be compressed to HDV) it might benefit me to capture the uncompressed analog composite feed from the A1 and send it through the necessary hardware to my laptop as DVCPRO 1080i. (I believe the hardware does not exist to do this today, but will bet in 6 months it will be available) If I was going to be in a studio where it is easier to utilize the professional jackpacks and use multiple cameras. I would pony up and get the G1. But I think for my purposes the A1 will be the perfect camera to cut my teeth on. Honestly though, if it was not for the HD-analog composite connection, I would go with the G1 and still be considering the HVX-200. In the end I will have a years worth of footage. Some shot in HDV, some uncompressed and captured as DVCPROHD 1080i. All the keeper clips stored on a redundant Raid as DVCPROHD 1080i ready for assembly. I will keep my tapes as archives of everything I shot. *Actually I wrote this out hoping if there was a flaw in my plans some one would point it out. Question- to the guys who really know... For a Mac user is there a particular line of digital converters and capture cards I should be looking at? Jim, I also have an apartment in the North End, I will be there during the winter. I will be willing to come out and play. Hopefully there are others in the area who need help ad much as I do in all this. Jay

October 22nd, 2006, 12:44 PM	#49
Jay Stebbins Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Nantucket MA Posts: 82	Now the new MacBook Pro, Blackmagic card or Kona Card coupled with this http://www.mobl.com/expansion/produc...ion/index.html and appropriate harddrive/raid would make a somewhat portable HD-SDI capture solution; Yes?

October 22nd, 2006, 02:03 PM	#50
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	It might work as far as I can tell.

October 23rd, 2006, 03:02 AM	#52
Jason Livingston Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 71	AFAIK the Kona/Blackmagic cards require either PCI-X or PCI-Express (PCIe) in order to capture/output HD video. The device mentioned above only supports regular PCI (32-bit 33MHz) cards, so it won't work. :( Expresscard slots use a PCIe x1 connection (in a smaller form factor), so in theory it could support uncompressed HD if an HDSDI Expresscard or a Expresscard-PCIe slot adapter were available... but to my knowledge there aren't any yet.

October 25th, 2006, 12:35 PM	#55
Jay Stebbins Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Nantucket MA Posts: 82	winner buys the beer...