Coming out of A1 via component video - Page 3 at DVinfo.net

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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old March 28th, 2007, 10:00 PM   #31
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uncomcressed

That is on the G1- you can capture uncompressed via SDI out put which I think is 1.45 Mbs but you have to be going to a hard drive. And you are going to have to pay a lot more for that option, which could be very worth it given the right person.
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Old March 29th, 2007, 04:07 AM   #32
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uncompressed also worth...

... for the right project

of course i know about SDI and the G1 jackpack´s. anyway if i had an easier budget i would probably go for the XH L1 (thats my future plan). its not my present situation

so, still, what type of signal comes out of the component output of the A1? Any of the hundreds A1 owners know this?

Thanks!
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Old March 29th, 2007, 05:48 AM   #33
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If it's of any help you you, when I feed the raw component output to my HDTV, the display info tells me it's 1920 x 1080i.
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Old March 29th, 2007, 06:24 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hernan Vilchez View Post
Im about to buy an A1. My only doubt: what kind of signal comes from the component out?

In the manual says it delivers D3 (1440x1080).

What is this? Uncompressed 8 bit high def video? Am i lost?

Thanks!

Hernan
According to this thread....

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=83325

....it is pre hdv compression, full faster 4:2:2.
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Old March 29th, 2007, 09:37 AM   #35
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finally seems that its uncompressed... isn t it?

Thanks Todd (and Neil), that link was very useful! In my opinion the component out frame looks with better contrast and color definition. Its more film-like.

So, if somehow we could record that signal on to a portable DTD a la firestore with component in... voila. Bypassed the 3k difference of the G1.

So:

1. Anybody has any idea how to do this? My films are run n gun documentaries, mostly outdoors and in complicated situations/environments (this "component uncompressed" gear must be really portable). I would surely invest to get this difference in image.

2. Is the signal uncompressed 4:2:2 1440x1080i 8 bit as i suppose, or...?

Would be also interesting to check what happens with the HV 20... i will ask our neighbours
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Old March 29th, 2007, 09:55 AM   #36
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You will have to be tethered to something that can ingest via component AND it has to have the throughput to support the ingest meaning a raid solution. Lots of HD space depending on how much time you are capturing as well. Bottom line it would require a studio type situation using a computer with a capture card and a raid to support the write speeds needed(probably 4 drive sata raid minimum).
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Old March 29th, 2007, 03:00 PM   #37
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D3 is a standard definition composite digital standard promulgated by Panasonic that never reached wide acceptance. It took an NTSC signal and digitized the whole thing and recorded on VHS sized tapes. I'm not sure why Canon keeps listing it in their manual, when it's clear that what they are outputting through the Component Out terminals is an ANALOG component signal. Page 98 of the manual makes that pretty clear. it shows the component out being connected to the analog component inputs of a monitor using the supplied breakout cable.

Since you're talking about run & gun shooting, there is no approach that I'm aware of that would do an analog to digital conversion, and then record that uncompressed digital signal onto a hard drive. In fact, no single drive I'm aware of has the throughput to keep up with all that data - it takes a RAID. Hey, if you find a setup like that, I want one too!

I'm afraid what you're after is prevented by TANSTAFL (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch). $3k is a little pricey for the digital outputs on the G1, but I'm still amazed they could do it in such a small camera to begin with. In fact I'm stunned by the quality of the images and the depth of image controls packed into the camera section of the A1/G1.

Bottom line, if you need uncompressed output in the field, plan on paying for the G1, and rental of a D5 tape recorder & a power inverter to run it.
And a really big guy to follow you around with the deck, inverter and car battery to run it all.
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 04:36 AM   #38
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Component out: analog or digital? & what's the diff HD vs. SD analog components?

Sorry if this seems obvious, but it's not to me... I don't own an XHA1 yet, but I'm reading the manual and it shows the component out to be one cable (on the camera end) that splits into the classic three headed analog component out at the TV/Monitor end. So, I'm assuming this is HD Component Analog - correct?

Now to further my education beyond the XHA1:

There also co-exists Analog Component and Digital Component? Analog Component uses 3 cables, and Digital Component uses 1. Both send three seperate signals - Are they the same in quality?

And now that we are in a HD/SD world, somethings are HD Analog Component, while others are only SD Analog Component - how do you know which is which?
...and
What's the difference - screen resolutions, 4:2:2 vs 4:1:1, hell I don't know now I'm making things up?

Is there two seperate/different cables HD Analog Component and an SD Analog Component or do you use the same cabling?

Furthermore, I'm confused because I own (purchased before the HDV explosion) a Sony PVM Production monitor with among the many in/outs: analog component. What would the picture from the XHA1 via the component out look like using the Analog component ins of my Sony PVM14L2? Would the screen be so squished/distorted that I:
Could NOT pull Critical Focus? Could NOT CC? Or would I be fine? (there are the underscan and a 16:9 buttons if this helps)?

Lost in the component confusion,
and thanks for any help,
Lonnie
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 06:29 AM   #39
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Hi Lonnie. I can help with some of these, maybe others can also chime in.

The A1 component out is analogue, as you say. It's a YUV type signal, and can be HD or SD according to how you set it in the menu option. So there is only one set of output connectors and only one cable.

The SD signal is 720x480 for NTSC, 720x576 for PAL. The HD analogue signal resolution has 1080 lines and has 16:9 aspect ratio, but I'm not sure if the horizontal resolution counts as 1440 or 1920 by the time it has been converted to analogue. HDV colour sampling is 4:2:0, SD NTSC is 4:1:1 and SD PAL is 4:2:0.

The only digital output on the A1 is the firewire port, which is serial data. Don't know if the SD signal is considered component or not, but it contains the same video information as the analogue output. For HDV through firewire, you get an MPEG2 transport stream that can be edited in an NLE or played back in a media player. Never heard of this being called component either.

The G1 camera and the H1 both have an SDI interface which outputs uncompressed digital video, i.e. no HDV encoding at all. This will give you the best video quality, provided you have a suitable editing machine that is fast enough to receive the SDI data and has big enough hard drives to store it all.

Your Sony monitor should be able to accept the SD component output OK, cos if I'm not wrong the component input can take both RGB and YUV. Even if you shoot HDV you still set the A1 component out to SD, and use the 16:9 setting on the monitor to see the picture without distortion. If you shoot SD, you have the choice of 16:9 or 4:3 aspect ratio on the camera and you would set the monitor accordingly.

Richard
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 06:47 AM   #40
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Thanks for all that Richard!

Now, what would happen if I shoot and record to HDV and have the component out settings in the cameras menu set to HD, and then connect to my Sony's analog component-in ports?

Will I not get a signal? or in regards to dimensions - Will it just look terrible/squished/cropped or ???
and with regards to color - what will it look like???

Thanks,
Lonnie
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 07:22 AM   #41
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Hi Lonnie. I very much doubt that the Sony monitor will be able to sync to the HD signal at all. You will probably just get tearing lines and no real picture. Shouldn't actually damage anything but I wouldn't recommend it. Still, if you do get an A1 and try it out, please post the results, I'm interested too.

BTW, I'm using a PC monitor (1680x1050) for viewing my HD while editing. I set it up as a secondary display under Windows XP, and then used a recent Nvidia graphics card driver that has an excellent option to play any video as full screen on the secondary display. This means that my NLE video signal is pumped out full screen to the secondary monitor without having to set anything up in the NLE.

I spent some time adjusting the secondary monitor settings (gamma, contrast, brightness and saturation) while playing an SD video that was also showing on my Sony CRT monitor, to try and match the 2 diisplays. I still don't think that LCDs are as good as CRT for video, but at least it is quite close now and much better than using the small monitor window on the main PC display.

Richard
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 03:14 PM   #42
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Richard - many thanks for your time...

I'm purchasing a Samsung HDTV before football season starts, but soon as my budget replenishes, and the XHA1 is in my hands - I'll let you know how things work... (End of August, I'm guessing)

Regards,
Lonnie
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 03:23 PM   #43
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Cheaper / Alternative to AJA IO HD (Capture A1 Uncompressed)

Hey Guys,

Here's a little diagram I created that illustrates what I view as an alternative to the AJA IO HD (When it comes to the A1).

Now, I'm not an engineer but I have had several years experience with cameras, signal flow etc. AND I've been an electronics nerd all my life.

Does anybody see any problems with the described workflow?

(The only downfall is that you have to bring your computer on location!)

(I view this as being helpful for GREEN SCREEN shots).

Let me know what you guys think!

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/7...workfloft4.jpg
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 03:44 PM   #44
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Hey John - Looks good. But I believe many use variations of this set up with either AJA or BM products already - but it's more commonly referred to as a "studio" set up (as in not very transportable). But, the main big deal about the IOHD is that it allows you to record to your laptop, which is more portable than your tower. However, I do know a couple of very imaginative types have made portable ATA style cases for their computer and tote them along to location shoots. I'm just not rich enough to risk damage to my macpro like this yet.

A question I have for the engineers out there: is there any signal degradation introduced by using the couplers or rca-bnc connectors?

Lonnie
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 03:49 PM   #45
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By the way - great illustrations!
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