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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old July 23rd, 2007, 04:06 PM   #46
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Hey

Thanks!

Yes, that's actually a great idea I hadn't thought of before. Too bad FCP isn't Windows compatible, I'd build a custom rig right now!

I, too, would like to know if the RCA coupler degrades the signal.

Engineers? :D

*OH and FCP experts, am I right when I said, in the illustration, that the 8bit 4:2:2 uncompressed footage would be captured using the new ProRes422 codec? I'm new to that one, just checking.

Thanks!*

Last edited by John Lofton IV; July 23rd, 2007 at 04:08 PM. Reason: Had to add that last question
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 07:33 PM   #47
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John,
In your scenario, you could capture to any codec you choose (yes ProRes, too). If your project was short enough (or you have fast & many many GBs of storage) - you could even capture uncompressed.

The main reason to capture to ProRes422 is it greatly reduces storage while keeping high quality, and it's an easier codec to edit with than HDV (like render times).

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Old July 23rd, 2007, 09:32 PM   #48
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NVM, didn't read the previous post carefully lol.

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Old July 23rd, 2007, 10:33 PM   #49
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I must be missing something here.............

But if you're taking your pc/ laptop to the camera, why are you going digital - analogue - digital when you could simply plug in the firewire and get digital - digital - digital WITH embedded sound to boot?

Or, as I said, am I missing something fundamental?

CS
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 11:40 PM   #50
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But if you're taking your pc/ laptop to the camera, why are you going digital - analogue - digital when you could simply plug in the firewire and get digital - digital - digital WITH embedded sound to boot?

Or, as I said, am I missing something fundamental?

CS
I believe going the firewire route would compress the footage to the HDV (m2t) format... I might be mistaken but I believe this is correct... The goal is to bypass the compression... It's been a while since I have done that...
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Old July 24th, 2007, 03:23 AM   #51
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Sorry guys............

but it ain't me missing something funamental.

The ONLY compression being performed is to enable the data stream from the sensors to be written to the tape with the bandwidth limitation that applies.

Neither the analogue Component NOR the Digital Firewire O/P's data streams are compressed, unless their source is the already compressed data on the tape (ie: in playback mode).

Ergo, both sources are uncompressed, as there is no reason for them to be so. The only compression being applied is to get the data onto the tape.

So, why go from the analogue Component O/P's when you can go Digital Firewire with embedded audio?

CS
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Old July 24th, 2007, 04:42 AM   #52
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I haven't worked with ProRes myself yet, but if I remember correctly from the Apple presentation, you can't capture in prores realtime, so if that is correct, FCP has to convert it to prores after capture.
The Aja io hd converts to prores with dedicated hardware.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 06:46 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Chris Soucy View Post
but it ain't me missing something funamental.

The ONLY compression being performed is to enable the data stream from the sensors to be written to the tape with the bandwidth limitation that applies.

Neither the analogue Component NOR the Digital Firewire O/P's data streams are compressed, unless their source is the already compressed data on the tape (ie: in playback mode).

Ergo, both sources are uncompressed, as there is no reason for them to be so. The only compression being applied is to get the data onto the tape.

So, why go from the analogue Component O/P's when you can go Digital Firewire with embedded audio?

CS
Chris, whatever comes out of the Firewire plug, IS compressed. In an HDV camcorder, what comes out of the firewire plug, whether it's in playback or record mode, is an HDV stream, hence a compressed data stream.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 11:02 AM   #54
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Neither the analogue Component NOR the Digital Firewire O/P's data streams are compressed, unless their source is the already compressed data on the tape (ie: in playback mode).
Chris,

Sergio already corrected you, but I wanted to add that I *wish* that's how it worked. There is no technical reason that manufacturers have to compress live footage to HDV when sending it out via firewire, but they all do it, and none provide any other option. HDV only uses 4.5 MB/s, while firewire (400) has the capacity to carry much, much more data: 48 MB/s. That's not enough for uncompressed 4:2:2 1080, but there are a lot of options. In any case, it would compete directly with ultra-high-margin HD-SDI, and they would need to find a codec that's light on the camera's tiny CPU, so it will probably never happen.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 01:41 PM   #55
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Why no use the BlackMagic Intensity Pro hardware for approx $350?

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

GAry
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Old July 24th, 2007, 01:53 PM   #56
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Why no use the BlackMagic Intensity Pro hardware for approx $350?

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

GAry
And then you won't have to use the RCA:BNC adapter cable and RCA Coupler. YES, it will degrade signal slightly, but more importantly, all of those connections are not shielded and can let interference come into play. One connection is better than 3 in your design!
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Old July 25th, 2007, 03:53 PM   #57
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Hmm

The BlackMagic Intensity Pro sounds great! I am definitely looking for a cheaper solution.

However, I'm looking for a cheaper solution to capture the highest possible quality from my A1.

What connection could I use from the A1 to connect to the Intensity Pro?

Is there such a thing as a Terminal-D Component to HDMI cable?

Or, are there adapters that would allow me to connect the 3 component cables to the HDMI input?

Last edited by John Lofton IV; July 25th, 2007 at 03:54 PM. Reason: *Upon closer inspection, I see there is another input for 'component' . Where do I find THAT cable?
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Old July 25th, 2007, 04:13 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by John Lofton IV View Post
The BlackMagic Intensity Pro sounds great!

What connection could I use from the A1 to connect to the Intensity Pro?

Or, are there adapters that would allow me to connect the 3 component cables to the HDMI input?
Read up and look at the product page... it comes with a breakout cable that allows hookup of the component cables.
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
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Old August 20th, 2007, 02:55 AM   #59
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Has anyone worked this one out yet?

I am aware of the HDV 4:2:0 colorspace limitations from XH-A1 captured via fire-wire. I am interested in learning any options for capturing 4:2:2 footage from XH-A1. Do any of the engineer people who've looked at the A1 think the design of the makes it possible to have an add-on jack pack be a component offered by Canon in the future, to upgrade to the functions currently available in the XH-G1? I do know that the camera is ultimately producing a full uncompressed signal, but I'm unsure if it is possible to output it.

I do have an HV-20, and will be setting up a mac pro and black magic intensity pro for capturing 4:2:2 from it in studio via HDMI, primarily for green-screen work. I would ultimately expect to see portable solutions for capturing 4:2:2 HD footage from these cameras directly to disk, bypassing DV compression, hopefully soon.

I'd still like to hear what options people have developed for themselves, and what new equipment they expect will help in portable uncompressed HD capture options or working with some of the newer codecs and capturing techniques.

thanks.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 07:05 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Jerome Cloninger View Post
Read up and look at the product page... it comes with a breakout cable that allows hookup of the component cables.
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
The Intensity has Analog output only. If you want a cheaper alternative to the Kona 3, then the Decklink HD at around $900 is a cheaper alternative.
It works really well for analog capture from the A1 as well as HDSDI capture from the H1.
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