Coming out of A1 via component video - Page 5 at DVinfo.net

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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old August 20th, 2007, 09:23 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Griffith View Post
The Intensity has Analog output only. If you want a cheaper alternative to the Kona 3, then the Decklink HD at around $900 is a cheaper alternative.
You are mistaken. The Intensity has no analog connections at all, it's HDMI only. The Intensity Pro has Analog Component output *and* input. The big difference between the $350 Itensity Pro and it's thrice-expensive brother, Decklink HD, is 8-bit 4:2:2 vs. 12-bit 4:4:4.

As to Chris Carroll's question about portability, there are two options:

1. A portable desktop:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=97526

2. Laptop with the Magma ExpressBox ($730):

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=99758
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Old August 20th, 2007, 10:03 AM   #62
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You are mistaken.
Actually..we are both wrong. :)

The Decklink HD is 10bit 4:2:2

Mondays... :)

-will
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Old August 20th, 2007, 10:43 AM   #63
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Is component out uncompressed?

Excuse me for getting involved in the discussion. The whole discussion is based on the assumtion that the video quality through the component out is of higher quality that the digital HDV stream. How do you know that Canon designed the A1 to output uncompressed video through the component out?
Have someone verified this by checking artifacts by sampling the component out and comparing with the HDV stream?
In an electronics design point of view it would be just as likely (or more likely)that the component out, CVBS out, audio out, and display out were connected after the HDV decompressor.

The Firewire data stream is an HDV (MPEG-2, 25 MBit) or DV (MJPEG, 25 MBit) stream regardless if you are storing to tape or not. The MPEG2 transport stream does not have enough bandwidth to be uncompressed. In fact Firewire does not have the bandwith for uncompressed HD video. Thats why Canon sells the G1.

When using 24F/25F the output from the camera is delayed half a second compared to reality (both audio, video out and display). Why would it be delayed if the camera video output were uncompressed? If the component video output were to be delayed half a second and still be in sync with the audio the camera would need to buffer half a second of uncompressed video. This is not likely since it would just add unneccessary hardware and increase the cost of the product.

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Old August 20th, 2007, 12:06 PM   #64
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How do you know that Canon designed the A1 to output uncompressed video through the component out?
I've tested all of the modes (24F, 30F, and 60i) empirically, and they are indeed live. Therefore, they can't be compressed because HDV uses a GOP of at least 15 frames. The fact has been confirmed by many forum members.

Quote:
In an electronics design point of view it would be just as likely (or more likely)that the component out, CVBS out, audio out, and display out were connected after the HDV decompressor.
The audio is live, as it should be, so that you can monitor and react to what's happening in real time. The viewfinder is very close to live in 30F and 60i modes, but it slows down a bit in 24F mode.

I don't know enough about electronics design to qualify what's easier, but I think the fact that *all* cameras with component output are uncompressed lends credence to the position that it's cheaper or nearly equivalent to make them that way.

[Now that I think about it, compression delay on component output would invalidate its ostensibly principle purpose: monitoring, so that's probably the most important reason.]

Quote:
When using 24F/25F the output from the camera is delayed half a second compared to reality (both audio, video out and display).
The component output and audio out are *not* delayed in 24F or any other mode. The viewfinder is delayed in 24F. The firewire stream is delayed in all modes.

The component output totally ignores the 24F/30F/60i mode setting: it always pulls 60i off the sensor: there's not even any pull down.

Last edited by Daniel Browning; August 20th, 2007 at 12:16 PM. Reason: Bracketed comment.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 12:49 PM   #65
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That is exactly what we have seen as well when doing live captures
from analog and HD-SDI from a H1. 60i all the time. No compression.
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Old September 3rd, 2007, 08:55 AM   #66
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Hi Everybody,

First post to this great forum - this is a topic of particular interest:

Trying to clarify the information here - Is it feasible to use the component out and feed it into, for instance the AJA io by means of adapters? Like others, my goal is to get uncompressed out without the expense of G1 or H1, ideally with portability too (MacBook Pro).

In the UK at least the io + A1 would be equivalent to the price of H1, but with more flexibility.

Thanks,

Nick.
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Old September 3rd, 2007, 08:58 AM   #67
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s it feasible to use the component out and feed it into, for instance the AJA io by means of adapters?
You don't need adapters with the IO-HD. It has component input.
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Old September 3rd, 2007, 09:18 AM   #68
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Many thanks Will
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Old September 4th, 2007, 12:30 AM   #69
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Okay, so I'm confused.

With the BlackMagic Intensity, are you able to capture HDV video, then come home and upload it to your computer uncompressed, or does the A1 need to be connected to the computer while you're filming?
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Old September 4th, 2007, 12:33 AM   #70
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It must be connected to the computer.
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Old November 5th, 2007, 11:45 AM   #71
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4.2.2 via component out from A1 - worth it?

I have read some discussion on this and seen some comparison stills. But, I was wondering if anyone who has captured 4.2.2 out of their A1 via black magic or Kona cards has an opinion. The few stills that I saw did look slightly more colorful and brighter, but my initial opinion was it was very subtle and maybe not worth the hassle. I am into quality and I know that we are talking about 25% more color with 4.2.2, so I am very tempted but being tethered to a computer and needing an assitant to run the captures seems like a pain.
So I ask, does the bump in color make it all worth it or is it in fact not worth the production pain.
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Old November 5th, 2007, 12:13 PM   #72
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4:2:2 Opinion

4:2:2 is generally better for chroma keying, as it keeps edges from getting sawtoothed. Better color resolution helps the divisions between colors, basically, reducing artifacts. Personally, I have shot in 24f on my XHA1 and, when lit correctly, it isn't too difficult to key the footage so that it looks really nice. I use Shake and After Effects for keying. I'd think it would matter mostly with really complex scenes, where you are dealing with more than a basic green wall. My experience has been that HDV keys far more nicely than DV ever did. Component would be even better, but I'm not sure it's worth the trade. Depends on what you are going to do.
Additionally, the component out is pre-HDV compression, so there will be some other differences regarding your imagery - mostly related to compression. There are varying opinions on how people feel about HDV compression when it comes to motion, but the common denominator dictates that it does, in fact exist and being able to avoid those artifacts is a real boon for some. Personally, it has never been an issue for me - especially in 24f mode. I shot a ceiling fan once (close-up, high speed) that broke up in 60i, but had no problems in 24f. It's one of those things where if you are going to film so much motion or so many scene complexitites that the compression matters, it would probably be impossible to tether yourself - or you shouldn't be shooting that scene because the basic production value/composition is all wrong.
Again, this is from my personal experience shooting interviews and some light key work, as well as some indy films and events.
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Old December 14th, 2007, 10:23 AM   #73
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Cant you record to Tape simultaneously to get the sound?
perhaps I am thinking in terms of the H1 > iohd
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 02:50 AM   #74
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Component IN?

I know you can take in anything with the RCA and than take it in through the firewire, but can i do the same thing with a component?
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 07:54 AM   #75
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No. Just like all other HD camcorders, the analog component video connection is an output only.
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