Upgrading to the A1 at DVinfo.net

Ross Jones · November 11th, 2006, 09:40 AM

I currently use a VX2100..
Question is this: will VX footage intercut with A1 in SD 4:3 OK, or will there be a noticeable quality difference?
If there is, I guess I could use the VX for close, and the A1 for other shots; is that reasonable..?
Or should I look to get rid of the VX..? (Be nice to have a second camera, tho'...)
Rgs, Ross.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Chris Hurd · November 11th, 2006, 10:43 AM

With the extensive image adjustment controls available in the A1, it should be a rather straightforward process to devise an A1 custom preset that will match the look of the VX2000. You'll have to put both cameras side by side and switch back and forth between the two on a good monitor in order to dial the A1 into the same look and feel of the VX2000. The more time you can spend on matching them up, the better; the good news is that you'll only need to do the hard work once or maybe twice (an indoor setting and an outdoor setting). From that point on, matching the two together should only be a matter of tweaking the custom preset that you've created on the A1. Hope that's clear,

Nick Weeks · November 11th, 2006, 11:33 AM

I've heard rumor the quality in SD on the HDV cameras is superior to any straight-up SD camera (like the 170 or vx2100) especially when recorded in HDV and converted to SD in post or capture. I wonder how well they would match up in an a/b camera config. I think it would be acceptable for a wedding or event, but a documentary or interview might be too noticeable I think

That would be an interesting test if anyone owns a good 3 ccd SD camera and the A1/G1. I'd love to see it.... both recorded in HDV and downconverted and recorded in SD compared to an SD cam.

Ross Jones · November 11th, 2006, 12:09 PM

Yes, seeing VX footage side by side with the A1 in SD or downconverted HDV->SD would be iteresting indeed..
But as Chris says, the A1 should be tweakable enough to get a close match to the VX,,
So I guess it's worth keeping the VX..
Rgds, Ross
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Chris Hurd · November 11th, 2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Weeks

I've heard rumor the quality in SD on the HDV cameras is superior to any straight-up SD camera

You can easily dial that superiority right out, if you wish.

Quote:

especially when recorded in HDV and converted to SD in post or capture.

Any HDV camcorder will also natively record in standard definition. In fact that will be a key step in matching the look of an SD camera.

Noel Evans · November 11th, 2006, 07:16 PM

Really see no point in recording in SD mode on the camera when a NLE downconvert will: make sure you have a higher res image after the fact in case you ever need it and also effectively speaking on the downconvert you will be working in a higher color space.

Ross Jones · November 11th, 2006, 08:12 PM

Noel,
I completely agree: I'd prefer to record in highest quality available, but my question stemmed from the idea of using the VX2100 as camera B, and whether the quality difference would be huge cutting between the A1 & the VX. Obviously the 16:9 for the VX is going to be nowhere near the A1 (I would assume...), but shooting 4:3, I'd need to use the A1 in SD mode anyway...
So if I upgraded to the A1, is it worth keeping the VX - that's the overall question..
Thx, Rgds, Ross.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Chris Hurd · November 11th, 2006, 08:24 PM

If the goal is to match a standard definition camera, then yes you would want to shoot in standard def with the A1. Higher resolution and a better color space is going to work *against* you if the primary goal is to match the look of an SD camera. The idea is to make them look the same, right?

Ross Jones · November 11th, 2006, 08:37 PM

Chris, yes, in my hypothetical example, I'd want to be able to cut without it being obvious (match the picture from each).. my VX produces good images but it's limited (really) to 4:3.. so to have two cameras would be nice in that situation..
However, I have some work coming up that's likely to need 16:9 final product, so I'm thinking of the A1.. but then I won't have a camera B option (not that it will really need it in this case, as it's a talking head thing..).
I'm trying to decide whether a) the A1 is my next camera, and b) whether i keep the VX.. The price point for the A1 is just right..
Rgds, Ross.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bill Pryor · November 12th, 2006, 10:17 AM

If you have to shoot with a second camera, in 16:9, use the A1 for the wide shots and shoot 16:9 with the VX for the closeups. My main camera is a DSR500WS, which has 16:9 chips (2/3"), and the second camera is a DSR250, which has the same chips as your VX. I shoot CUs all the time with it in 16:9. I softened up the 500 and saturated the color a bit and desaturated the 250 a bit, and I can get a great match. The 250 is noisier, but on CUs and even medium shots, nobody really notices the difference. You have to be a bit more careful with your lighting when using the electronic 16:9 mode because you'll get some stairstepping on overexposed diagonals that you normally don't get in its 4:3 mode. So, you can make it work if you're careful.

Ross Jones · November 12th, 2006, 12:45 PM

Bill,
Excellent..! Just what I wanted to hear.. So now I can justify keeping the VX and saving the pennies for the A1..!
Rgds, Ross.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

November 11th, 2006, 09:40 AM	#1
Ross Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Harvard, MA Posts: 155	Upgrading to the A1 I currently use a VX2100.. Question is this: will VX footage intercut with A1 in SD 4:3 OK, or will there be a noticeable quality difference? If there is, I guess I could use the VX for close, and the A1 for other shots; is that reasonable..? Or should I look to get rid of the VX..? (Be nice to have a second camera, tho'...) Rgs, Ross. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

November 11th, 2006, 10:43 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	With the extensive image adjustment controls available in the A1, it should be a rather straightforward process to devise an A1 custom preset that will match the look of the VX2000. You'll have to put both cameras side by side and switch back and forth between the two on a good monitor in order to dial the A1 into the same look and feel of the VX2000. The more time you can spend on matching them up, the better; the good news is that you'll only need to do the hard work once or maybe twice (an indoor setting and an outdoor setting). From that point on, matching the two together should only be a matter of tweaking the custom preset that you've created on the A1. Hope that's clear, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 11th, 2006, 12:09 PM	#4
Ross Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Harvard, MA Posts: 155	Vx & A1 Yes, seeing VX footage side by side with the A1 in SD or downconverted HDV->SD would be iteresting indeed.. But as Chris says, the A1 should be tweakable enough to get a close match to the VX,, So I guess it's worth keeping the VX.. Rgds, Ross ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

November 11th, 2006, 08:12 PM	#7
Ross Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Harvard, MA Posts: 155	Recording in SD ? Noel, I completely agree: I'd prefer to record in highest quality available, but my question stemmed from the idea of using the VX2100 as camera B, and whether the quality difference would be huge cutting between the A1 & the VX. Obviously the 16:9 for the VX is going to be nowhere near the A1 (I would assume...), but shooting 4:3, I'd need to use the A1 in SD mode anyway... So if I upgraded to the A1, is it worth keeping the VX - that's the overall question.. Thx, Rgds, Ross. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

November 11th, 2006, 08:24 PM	#8
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	If the goal is to match a standard definition camera, then yes you would want to shoot in standard def with the A1. Higher resolution and a better color space is going to work against you if the primary goal is to match the look of an SD camera. The idea is to make them look the same, right? __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 11th, 2006, 11:33 AM	#3
Nick Weeks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL USA Posts: 722	I've heard rumor the quality in SD on the HDV cameras is superior to any straight-up SD camera (like the 170 or vx2100) especially when recorded in HDV and converted to SD in post or capture. I wonder how well they would match up in an a/b camera config. I think it would be acceptable for a wedding or event, but a documentary or interview might be too noticeable I think That would be an interesting test if anyone owns a good 3 ccd SD camera and the A1/G1. I'd love to see it.... both recorded in HDV and downconverted and recorded in SD compared to an SD cam.

November 11th, 2006, 07:16 PM	#6
Noel Evans Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 157	Really see no point in recording in SD mode on the camera when a NLE downconvert will: make sure you have a higher res image after the fact in case you ever need it and also effectively speaking on the downconvert you will be working in a higher color space.

November 11th, 2006, 08:37 PM	#9
Ross Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Harvard, MA Posts: 155	A1 / Vx2100 Chris, yes, in my hypothetical example, I'd want to be able to cut without it being obvious (match the picture from each).. my VX produces good images but it's limited (really) to 4:3.. so to have two cameras would be nice in that situation.. However, I have some work coming up that's likely to need 16:9 final product, so I'm thinking of the A1.. but then I won't have a camera B option (not that it will really need it in this case, as it's a talking head thing..). I'm trying to decide whether a) the A1 is my next camera, and b) whether i keep the VX.. The price point for the A1 is just right.. Rgds, Ross. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

November 12th, 2006, 10:17 AM	#10
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	If you have to shoot with a second camera, in 16:9, use the A1 for the wide shots and shoot 16:9 with the VX for the closeups. My main camera is a DSR500WS, which has 16:9 chips (2/3"), and the second camera is a DSR250, which has the same chips as your VX. I shoot CUs all the time with it in 16:9. I softened up the 500 and saturated the color a bit and desaturated the 250 a bit, and I can get a great match. The 250 is noisier, but on CUs and even medium shots, nobody really notices the difference. You have to be a bit more careful with your lighting when using the electronic 16:9 mode because you'll get some stairstepping on overexposed diagonals that you normally don't get in its 4:3 mode. So, you can make it work if you're careful.

November 12th, 2006, 12:45 PM	#11
Ross Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Harvard, MA Posts: 155	Bill, Excellent..! Just what I wanted to hear.. So now I can justify keeping the VX and saving the pennies for the A1..! Rgds, Ross. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~