Picture comparison - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 2nd, 2006, 09:06 AM   #16
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 4,449
The two big differences between the A1 and the Sony V1, to me, are first the 1/4" chips of the V1, and second the lens. A wide angle adapter for the Z1 would be necessary for most people. The wide angle of the A1's lens was one of the selling features for me, but on my first exterior shoot I came to appreciate the 20:1 zoom too. The Sony looks nice except for the lens and the smaller chips. The smaller chips put it in a different category in my book--more competitive with the GL2; and if you compare it to other 1/4" chip cameras, it is great.
Bill Pryor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2006, 10:08 AM   #17
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Tremble
From the clips I've seen it looks like the XH-A1 has much less CA ( to the point it's negligable) than the H1, certainly much less than the H1s I received. The XH-A1 has a much wider lens too which is very attractive.

The more I see of the XH-A1 the more the choice between the XH-A1 and the Sony V1 becomes a real difficulty. A nice problem to have though...

TT
I wish I could agree Tony. CA is a dirty word around here because it infers it originates from the lens rather than another explanation for the phenomena so I'll just call it "fringing." My hope was that the XH-A1 was going to be an improvement in this regard on the XL-H1, for which I always thought the red/green fringing was it's worst feature. From what I can see from clips posted with the XL-H1 and my own XH-A1, the newer cam continues the unfortunate tradition with equal aplomb.

My HV10 and former Z1U also have significant fringing, but of the yellow/blue hue.

But my overall judgment about the XH-A1 lens is that it is a very good one in spite of this anomaly, witness that it remains sharp across the full zoom range and full range of aperture openings, whereas the Z1 got soft at the long end.

Even though Steve Mullen noted he could not observe any fringing in the V1U video, I saw it easily observable in the corners of the stills he posted from inside the Starbucks Cafe, from memory it was fairly strong blue fringing on the chrome legs of a stool in the lower right, and elsewhere.
Tom Roper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2006, 11:12 AM   #18
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 260
Chris, I know that your style of shooting means that low light performance is not a big issue for you. But for many of us it is a huge issue. To the extent that, right or wrong, it becomes the deciding factor in which camera we buy.
Does the negligible difference between the cameras in good light become a noticeable difference in low-light?
Doug Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2006, 11:16 AM   #19
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper
I wish I could agree Tony. CA is a dirty word around here because it infers it originates from the lens rather than another explanation for the phenomena so I'll just call it "fringing." My hope was that the XH-A1 was going to be an improvement in this regard on the XL-H1, for which I always thought the red/green fringing was it's worst feature. From what I can see from clips posted with the XL-H1 and my own XH-A1, the newer cam continues the unfortunate tradition with equal aplomb.
Hi Tom,

From the clips I've seen from the XH-A1 from Kaku Ito the fringing seemed much reduced over the H1. Especially good given how much wider the XH_A1 lens is than the H1. In these lenses the CA seems worst in wider angles.

I've also seen it in V1 clips and stills but to be honest it's at a level I don't find objectionable. If you take a look at some of the XDCAM HD footage CA is still present in lenses costing double what a XH-A1 costs. XH-A1 or V1 we got ourselves a bargain!! :)

Will be purchasing one or the other next week. Can't wait...

TT
Tony Tremble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2006, 01:54 PM   #20
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Snellville, Georgia
Posts: 614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Tremble
<snip>
XH-A1 or V1 we got ourselves a bargain!! :)

Will be purchasing one or the other next week. Can't wait...

TT
Indeed, I think both cams are going to perform at a level where you can't go wrong. I'm with Bill on one area that really pushed me towards the Canon, the wide angle. But I do have to give the Sony a big nod on the smearless CMOS sensors. I've always preferred Canon over Sony when comparing similar camcorders, but I really think the A1 and V1 have reached a point where its apples to apples. Some differences, but overall both capable of delivering superb content in the right hands. Best of all, both are an excellent value.
Philip Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2006, 02:08 PM   #21
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canton, Ohio
Posts: 1,770
For those who need extremely good lowlight footage there is an anomaly with the A1 lens that is less present in the H1. At a wide open aperture and zoomed out both are at 1.6. At the most telephoto range both are at 3.2 or 3.4...I can't remember off hand. However the A1 is extremely linear in how it gets there. Let me explain.

I tested with my "new" used H1 after having an A1 and I can confirm this. I was able to zoom past 50 and the aperture had not dropped beyond F1.8 yet. I then continued to 80 and it was still at F1.8-2.0. From 80 to 100 it stopped down fast to 3.2. So the exposure stays consistent through most of the zoom and then changes mainly at the most tele part of the lens.

The A1 (I cannot perform test as I sent it back btu I do remember the behavior) was very linear in that the iris began to close immediately in the zoom range. If I recall right at 50 zoom the iris was already stopped down to the F2.6 range. It continues very linearly all the way to 100 and F3.2. I know this isn' a big deal to some but I do still shoot weddings and receptions where I need all the light the camera can gather. And at least for me I found the A1 to not perform as well as the H1 in low light.....maybe at the widest end of the zoom they are the same, but zoom a little and the A1 stops down very fast. The fact that is a wider lens meant I needed to zoom more than normal to frame subjects which meant, less light still.

So in my opinion, the A1 is not as good at lowlight shooting because of a lens limitation....not because of a CCD limitation. In well lit scenes the cameras would be hard to differentiate as Chris stated.

Anyone else seeing this?
Marty Hudzik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2006, 05:31 PM   #22
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik
For those who need extremely good lowlight footage there is an anomaly with the A1 lens that is less present in the H1. At a wide open aperture and zoomed out both are at 1.6. At the most telephoto range both are at 3.2 or 3.4...I can't remember off hand. However the A1 is extremely linear in how it gets there. Let me explain.

I tested with my "new" used H1 after having an A1 and I can confirm this. I was able to zoom past 50 and the aperture had not dropped beyond F1.8 yet. I then continued to 80 and it was still at F1.8-2.0. From 80 to 100 it stopped down fast to 3.2. So the exposure stays consistent through most of the zoom and then changes mainly at the most tele part of the lens.

The A1 (I cannot perform test as I sent it back btu I do remember the behavior) was very linear in that the iris began to close immediately in the zoom range. If I recall right at 50 zoom the iris was already stopped down to the F2.6 range. It continues very linearly all the way to 100 and F3.2. I know this isn' a big deal to some but I do still shoot weddings and receptions where I need all the light the camera can gather. And at least for me I found the A1 to not perform as well as the H1 in low light.....maybe at the widest end of the zoom they are the same, but zoom a little and the A1 stops down very fast. The fact that is a wider lens meant I needed to zoom more than normal to frame subjects which meant, less light still.

So in my opinion, the A1 is not as good at lowlight shooting because of a lens limitation....not because of a CCD limitation. In well lit scenes the cameras would be hard to differentiate as Chris stated.

Anyone else seeing this?
Here's my observation of the XH-A1:

< Z20 = F1.6
> Z20 = F1.8
> Z41 = F2.0
> Z55 = F2.2
> Z64 = F2.4
> Z73 = F2.6
> Z80 = F2.8
> Z92 = F3.2
> Z97 = F3.4

This is only 1 f-stop difference from Z00 to Z99. Unless the H1 shows a stark improvement on the A1 low light, it would be possible to model the gain profile to achieve the same end with the A1. It would seem logical to me that a lens with very even performance across the full zoom range would have a more linear response in relation to aperture opening than one with a sudden jump in light loss toward the end.
Tom Roper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2006, 06:43 PM   #23
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canton, Ohio
Posts: 1,770
Here's my observation of the XL-H1:

F1.6 and these numbers indicate when the changes take place.

Z38 = F1.8
Z66 = F2.0
Z81 = F2.2
Z87 = F2.4
Z90 = F2.6
Z93 = F2.8
Z95 = F3.2
Z97 = F3.4

I know it isn't much difference on paper but in actual use at a dark wedding reception the difference between the 2 cameras is significant...if you plan on zooming much to frame your shots that is. At full wide it is a wash.
Marty Hudzik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2006, 06:46 PM   #24
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canton, Ohio
Posts: 1,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper
. Unless the H1 shows a stark improvement on the A1 low light, it would be possible to model the gain profile to achieve the same end with the A1.
Can you explain what you mean? Using gain to make up for a loss of light due to telephot is fine, but keep in mind that the H1 can do that too. I don't see that as an advatange for the A1 unless the H1 couldn't do this also, and therfore still keep a small low light advvantage over the new kid on the block.

Can you clarify what you meant?

Thanks!
Marty Hudzik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2006, 09:26 PM   #25
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik
Using gain to make up for a loss of light due to telephot is fine, but keep in mind that the H1 can do that too. I don't see that as an advatange for the A1 unless the H1 couldn't do this also, and therfore still keep a small low light advvantage over the new kid on the block.
I agree. And I agree with you that on paper it isn't much. But if you think you can see it, that's what matters.
Tom Roper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2006, 05:44 AM   #26
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Malta| Europe
Posts: 55
Can anyone film the same scene using both cameras (A1 and H1) and post the clips please? This way we could see the diffrence between the two in low light conditions.
Adrian Paul Spiteri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2006, 07:45 AM   #27
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canton, Ohio
Posts: 1,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Paul Spiteri
Can anyone film the same scene using both cameras (A1 and H1) and post the clips please? This way we could see the diffrence between the two in low light conditions.
Sorry. I would love to but I only have the H1 for now. Wish I could have both though. Each one has benefits over the other but I think overall they will produce similar images. But for the ultimate in control and flexibility the H1 is still tops.
Marty Hudzik is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:12 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network