Audio "normal" vs. "voice"? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 22nd, 2006, 08:54 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kelkheim, Germany
Posts: 375
Audio "normal" vs. "voice"?

Does anyone know the difference between the audio settings "Normal" and "Voice"? I was hoping to find a hided audio limiter here, but clipping does occur even in "voice" position.
__________________
Michael
Michael Mann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 09:02 AM   #2
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW area, TX
Posts: 6,108
Images: 1
I'm going to take a stab and guess that 'voice' employs a band-pass filter centered around the primary voice frequencies while normal removes any filtering. The 'voice' mode would be helpful in this case to isolate dialog from distracting background audio, making such dialog cut through the mix.

-gb-
Greg Boston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 09:19 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kelkheim, Germany
Posts: 375
Thanks! Chris & Greg, you don't happen to know about an audio limiter? XLR-inputs without switchable limiter? I can't believe it is missing.
__________________
Michael
Michael Mann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 10:17 AM   #4
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 4,449
I've been shooting (mostly with Betacam and DVCAM 2/3" chip cameras) for longer than I care to remember and I don't think I've ever run across an audio limiter, except on a mixer. If you record in auto (which I've never done) the automatic function serves as a limiter, obviously. But I don't recall ever seeing an audio limiter switch, like mixers have, on any camera I've used.
Bill Pryor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 10:28 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northampton, England
Posts: 500
Some camcorders in this price range (Z1/FX1?) come with a built-in limiter / soft-clip in manual mode...

But I'm guessing not the A1?
__________________
Alex
Alex Leith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 10:44 AM   #6
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 4,449
I'm sort of new to the "prosumer" camera thing and I didn't know any of them had a limiter. Maybe it's a menu function? I'll check the manual and see.
Bill Pryor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 10:51 AM   #7
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 4,449
Nothing in the manual that I can find about a limiter, so it must not have one.

What I've always done on other cameras when not using a mixer and shooting things that might blow out the audio is use an XLR Y-adapter, and I set channel 1 tone at -20, and then take channel 2 down about another 5-10 db. So if something on channel 1 peaks out above around a -11 or so, channel 2 should cover me.
Bill Pryor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 10:56 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kelkheim, Germany
Posts: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Leith
Some camcorders in this price range (Z1/FX1?) come with a built-in limiter / soft-clip in manual mode
That's right! And I used it all the time.

Canon provides us with top audio features that are essential to use high quality microphones on the A1 WITHOUT needing a mixer: professional XLR inputs, separate channel manual gain control, phantom powering, 20dB att - but it leaves out a limiter? Sorry, but that does not make sense at all, does it?
__________________
Michael
Michael Mann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 10:58 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northampton, England
Posts: 500
Yes, I'd never come across a full size camera with a built-in limiter, but I think with the one-man (often less trained) operation of these smaller cameras some manufacturers have been kind enough to give us at very-least a soft-clip.

The A1 doesn't appear to have a soft-clip (I've just checked) although the "auto" setting does suspiciously well at managing audio levels without sounding bad at all...

I'm pretty impressed by the audio on this camera. I feel a bit unsettled that I'm considering using the built in mics for ambient sound... it goes against everything I've ever learned! But... they sound... okay...
__________________
Alex
Alex Leith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 11:07 AM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kelkheim, Germany
Posts: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Pryor
What I've always done on other cameras when not using a mixer and shooting things that might blow out the audio is use an XLR Y-adapter, and I set channel 1 tone at -20, and then take channel 2 down about another 5-10 db. So if something on channel 1 peaks out above around a -11 or so, channel 2 should cover me.
Good idea, Bill. I sure would do the same, but I am always recording MS-Stereo.
I hope, that there IS a kind of "soft clipping" when recording in manual mode, even if it is not mentioned in the manual.
__________________
Michael
Michael Mann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 11:09 AM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northampton, England
Posts: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mann
I hope, that there IS a kind of "soft clipping" when recording in manual mode, even if it is not mentioned in the manual.
I couldn't find it... but I hope someone can? Perhaps it's a firmware upgrade :-P
__________________
Alex
Alex Leith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 11:15 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kelkheim, Germany
Posts: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Leith
Perhaps it's a firmware upgrade :-P
Alex, I didn't think of such a solution before. They could "fix" it via a firmware upgrade, could they? I mean - could a limiting/soft clipping feature be added only by software?
__________________
Michael
Michael Mann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 11:41 AM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northampton, England
Posts: 500
I presume it could be added by software, but that really depends on how Canon have setup / programmed this camcorder.

Does anyone know if the H1 has a soft-clip?
__________________
Alex
Alex Leith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 11:42 AM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 173
Maybe they can, but I don't think they will. If you can't organize the tresshold a limiter sounds bad. They all do, they clip the sound off/on and you have a 'breathing' effect.

Try to treat yourself (and your audio) by working with a small portable audiomixer that feeds the phantom mics too, like the sounddevices Premix or sortalike. The preamp quality is much better and the monitoring is perfect. It's another 500$ but in the end, this is a working solution, go line in in the A1.
Raymond Toussaint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2006, 03:40 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northampton, England
Posts: 500
Of course you're right Raymond. The soft-clip / limiter is more of a "belt-and-braces" ("belt-and-suspenders") solution - It won't make your audio sound good if you haven't got the levels right, but it can save it if you hit and unexpectedly loud transient...

Like somebody shouting "Stop this wedding!" right in the middle of the service.

:-D
__________________
Alex
Alex Leith is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:24 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network