24F Clarification at DVinfo.net

Ryan Schultz · January 7th, 2007, 12:46 AM

Hey Guys...
Looking at investing in a XH A1, and was wondering, the 24F mode that it has, and how it compares to say, the 24P mode of a DVX100. What are the similarities of the 24P of the DVX100? Or is it more of a "Cineframe 24" mode that sony introduced to give it a film "Feel" but really isnt true 24? Which of these does it more closley resemble? Thanks for any help!

Tony Tibbetts · January 7th, 2007, 02:35 AM

Do a search. This horse has been beaten long after it's death. It certainly isn't "Cineframe"

Chris Hurd · January 7th, 2007, 06:02 AM

24F *is* 24P.

Matthew Nayman · January 7th, 2007, 08:54 AM

Chris, I didn't see your title changed to disagreeable coot.

Love it.

Bill Pryor · January 7th, 2007, 12:01 PM

Damn--the discussions over the difference between F and P are gonna go on forever, I guess. Canon shoulda used a P. It is 24 frames per second progressive, no interlace, no funky pulldown stutter motion. It is exactly the same as any of the other video cameras that also shoot real 24 frames per second progressive. The Z1's cineframe 24 is not the same thing.

Chris--maybe an automatic link to the Canon white paper about this could pop up any time there's an F used after the number 24 in any post?

Matthew Nayman · January 7th, 2007, 12:05 PM

In all honesty, there were qujestions about Canon's XL2 having "real" 24p, simply because people don't understand.

Bottom line is F is P and P is F, so just out and shoot some Preaking Frogressive video

:P

Ryan Schultz · January 7th, 2007, 01:14 PM

So after doing ALOT of searching, i've found that (and tell me if i'm right) that if i filmed with 24P with the DVX100 (since its one of the most used 24P prosumer cam) and 24F with the A1, the only difference is the HD? The film "feel" is there?

Brent Graham · January 7th, 2007, 02:23 PM

Film 'feel' is tough.

All 24p/f means is that it takes 24 full frames per second. This timing is exactly like film, so moving objects in the frame have the same motion cadence to them. They move in the same way.

That is all.

Everything else that makes film...filmy is more complex, like latitude, color matrix, etc.

Film has way more stops than any of these digital cameras. So they aren't exact replacements for film, but they're getting better. The A1 has more latitude than the DVX, and more resolution. I also believe (my opinion) that the A1's grain is more film-like, while the DVX's grain is very digital looking.

But 24p/f isn't everything that makes film...filmy. It is one necessary component though.

Kyle Prohaska · January 7th, 2007, 10:35 PM

From what I understand, 24f and p is the same just as the others said. The only difference is how the frames are created. Other than that, enjoy.

- Kyle

Noel Evans · January 9th, 2007, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Schultz

So after doing ALOT of searching, i've found that (and tell me if i'm right) that if i filmed with 24P with the DVX100 (since its one of the most used 24P prosumer cam) and 24F with the A1, the only difference is the HD? The film "feel" is there?

Yes, it is. Now there are people backward and forwarding over which looks THE BEST but to my eyes the A1 is as good as any other. Too much banter in my opinion anyway. Better to be out shooting than arguing a cameras virtues. Its kind of like two guys standing on a street corner arguing over a chevy 350 and a ford 351 motor, both are quick engines, get in your damn cars and drive already.

Bill Pryor · January 9th, 2007, 09:50 AM

Or, as Chris might say: Measurebating.
I think somebody needs to get that word into Wikipedia.

Ryan Schultz · January 9th, 2007, 01:48 PM

Thanks for the help guys!! I will let you know how it goes.

Bill Pryor · January 9th, 2007, 01:54 PM

There are quite a number of Canon's 24p clips posted here that you can look at.

January 7th, 2007, 12:46 AM	#1
Ryan Schultz New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 14	24F Clarification Hey Guys... Looking at investing in a XH A1, and was wondering, the 24F mode that it has, and how it compares to say, the 24P mode of a DVX100. What are the similarities of the 24P of the DVX100? Or is it more of a "Cineframe 24" mode that sony introduced to give it a film "Feel" but really isnt true 24? Which of these does it more closley resemble? Thanks for any help!

January 7th, 2007, 06:02 AM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	24F is 24P. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 7th, 2007, 10:35 PM	#9
Kyle Prohaska Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ransomville NY Posts: 239	From what I understand, 24f and p is the same just as the others said. The only difference is how the frames are created. Other than that, enjoy. - Kyle __________________ Online Portfolio \| Feature Film on XHA1

January 7th, 2007, 02:35 AM	#2
Tony Tibbetts Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 385	Do a search. This horse has been beaten long after it's death. It certainly isn't "Cineframe"

January 7th, 2007, 08:54 AM	#4
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Chris, I didn't see your title changed to disagreeable coot. Love it.

January 7th, 2007, 12:01 PM	#5
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Damn--the discussions over the difference between F and P are gonna go on forever, I guess. Canon shoulda used a P. It is 24 frames per second progressive, no interlace, no funky pulldown stutter motion. It is exactly the same as any of the other video cameras that also shoot real 24 frames per second progressive. The Z1's cineframe 24 is not the same thing. Chris--maybe an automatic link to the Canon white paper about this could pop up any time there's an F used after the number 24 in any post?

January 7th, 2007, 12:05 PM	#6
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	In all honesty, there were qujestions about Canon's XL2 having "real" 24p, simply because people don't understand. Bottom line is F is P and P is F, so just out and shoot some Preaking Frogressive video :P

January 7th, 2007, 01:14 PM	#7
Ryan Schultz New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 14	So after doing ALOT of searching, i've found that (and tell me if i'm right) that if i filmed with 24P with the DVX100 (since its one of the most used 24P prosumer cam) and 24F with the A1, the only difference is the HD? The film "feel" is there?

January 7th, 2007, 02:23 PM	#8
Brent Graham Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 222	Film 'feel' is tough. All 24p/f means is that it takes 24 full frames per second. This timing is exactly like film, so moving objects in the frame have the same motion cadence to them. They move in the same way. That is all. Everything else that makes film...filmy is more complex, like latitude, color matrix, etc. Film has way more stops than any of these digital cameras. So they aren't exact replacements for film, but they're getting better. The A1 has more latitude than the DVX, and more resolution. I also believe (my opinion) that the A1's grain is more film-like, while the DVX's grain is very digital looking. But 24p/f isn't everything that makes film...filmy. It is one necessary component though.

January 9th, 2007, 09:50 AM	#11
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Or, as Chris might say: Measurebating. I think somebody needs to get that word into Wikipedia.

January 9th, 2007, 01:48 PM	#12
Ryan Schultz New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 14	Thanks for the help guys!! I will let you know how it goes.

January 9th, 2007, 01:54 PM	#13
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	There are quite a number of Canon's 24p clips posted here that you can look at.