Capture-Anyone else finding this? at DVinfo.net

Alastair Brown · March 2nd, 2007, 02:21 AM

I've noted that when I capture from the camera I am finding un-expected breaks i.e. it starts a new clip when the camera obviously wasn't started or stopped.

Anyone else noted this? Had it on both my PC's

Neil McLean · March 2nd, 2007, 02:47 AM

It could quite simply be dropped frames. What type of tapes have you been using to shoot HDV?

Richard Hunter · March 2nd, 2007, 04:55 AM

I haven't found unexpected breaks, but when I capture HDV in Vegas with auto scene detection I often get the scene division one or 2 frames late. Not sure if this is inherent to HDV or just a "feature" of Vegas capture.

Richard

Alastair Brown · March 2nd, 2007, 05:52 AM

I'm still on the Canon tape supplied with the camera. It's early days for me and I'm not at my PC. Not sure if the HDV capture interface has any options for scene detection or not.

Just to clarify, it's occuring where I wouldn't expect it to. I was shooting 30 mins un-interupted and it split it into three clips? Had the same with a shorter section I filmed of approx 5mins un-interupted. It just started a new clip out of the blue.

Dave Halliday · March 2nd, 2007, 09:43 AM

I've had issues too. The issues seem to be "getting better" as I learn how to work with the camera, but I still get *very* funky *very* unexpected stuff sometimes.

Alan Craig · March 2nd, 2007, 09:57 AM

I dont realy know but it just might have something to do with the way your hard drive is formatted. If it has been formatted as fat32 there is a limit on the size of file you can make, if it is formatted as ntfs you can make very much larger file sizes if not unlimited check how your hd is formatted hope this is of some help

Doug Graham · March 2nd, 2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Hunter

I haven't found unexpected breaks, but when I capture HDV in Vegas with auto scene detection I often get the scene division one or 2 frames late. Not sure if this is inherent to HDV or just a "feature" of Vegas capture.

Richard

You have auto scene detection in HDV capture mode??? Hey, do you have the ability to set in and out points, too? My capture tool has half the options grayed out.

Dan Wilder · March 2nd, 2007, 12:54 PM

Don't rule out the firewire port on your PC as a potential cause. If I use the firewire port integrated on my laptop to capture, I can count on at least one or two dropouts per tape. The same port works fine with external hard drives. I switched to a $30 PCMCIA firewire card and I have zero dropouts.

I'm also into PC-based, multi-track audio recording where continuous data streams at very low latencies are important. It's common knowledge in that arena that not all firewire ports are created equal. Interfaces using either a TI or VIA firewire chips are generally preferred. Firewire/USB combo cards can also be suspect. On both of my desktop systems I have the integrated firewire ports disabled and use a $20 PCI card instead.

I'm not saying it can't be the camera. I don't know about the A1 as I'm awaiting delivery of my unit. I'm just suggesting that dropout problems can also be caused by factors other than the camera itself. Also check to see if the hard drive you are capturing to is heavily fragmented.

-Dan

Alastair Brown · March 2nd, 2007, 01:12 PM

It's happened on a brand new frash 160Gb Laptop drive and also on an external fresh formatted drive. Both NTFS so file size issues not the culprit.

Patrick Moreau · March 3rd, 2007, 08:06 AM

I don't have that problem with both my A1s. I use FCP and the built in firewire port. Record to either an external drive or an internal, never had this happen either way.

Patrick

Philip Hinkle · March 3rd, 2007, 08:19 AM

If your external laptop drive is a 5400rpm drive the drive speed may be part of the problem. Laptop external drives aren't usually as robust and desktop ones. I have one that works well for my but I haven't tried HDV on it yet...just DV.

Doug Davis · March 3rd, 2007, 11:33 AM

I was shooting a wedding a couple weeks ago and I had that issue... It was about 30 min of footage in one solid take and it divided it out in 3 clips...? Possibly and HDV buffer running out? I am REALLY curious to know what is causing this...

In one of my shots someone was at the beginning of the isle (splits the clip) and then is at the end of the isle... I capture with vegas and it is set to stop on dropped frames so that is not the issue...

Peter J Alessandria · March 3rd, 2007, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip Hinkle

If your external laptop drive is a 5400rpm drive the drive speed may be part of the problem. Laptop external drives aren't usually as robust and desktop ones. I have one that works well for my but I haven't tried HDV on it yet...just DV.

I've captured many, many hours of 25mbps video on external 5400rpm drives without dropped frames. It's much more likely the firewire connection.

Allan Black · March 4th, 2007, 04:57 AM

Alistair, try a different firewire cable; be careful to connect it with the camera
switched off and carefully push the little pluggers right in.

Gert Kracht · March 4th, 2007, 07:02 AM

Maybe this sounds wierd, but still I have to mention a few experiences from the past:

A good friend has a normal PAL camera from Panasonic. When capturing video from the camera, placing it nearby a monitor (with normal TV Tube).
The magnetic signals who surround the monitor had strong influence on the capturing. Many dropped frames etc...

He started using a more expensive and shielded cable. The problems almost went from 100% to zero. Almost. After that we changed the shielding on the 230 Volt outlet. Better ground and from there on all problems were solved.

The same problems can occure when a PCI card is used for capturing. On older machines the speed of some cards are not good enough. These days the built in 1394 are much better.

On laptops there is the issue of using 16 bits or 32 bits slot PCMCIA cards. Some of the cards are not fast enough.

At home I use a AMD X2-4400 PC system on a Asus A8N-SLI Premium motherbord with 2 Gig memory.
When connected to the 1394 on the back. No problems. But, in my Cooler Master Stacker tower there is also a 1394 on the front. The cable on the inside has (i think) some shielding problems and when I use this connection, some problems are: dropped frames.

Yesterday I built a new PC for a friend and he has almost the same hardware as my computer. Only difference: new Stacker tower and Core Duo PC. We did some capturing on that: no problems. We captured 30 minutes of footage.

The only strange thing: Adobe Premiere does not show a 'live' screen when capturing HDV. Pinnacle Studio 10 does.

I think overall you could say it all counts up: cables, hardware and software.

March 2nd, 2007, 02:21 AM	#1
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	Capture-Anyone else finding this? I've noted that when I capture from the camera I am finding un-expected breaks i.e. it starts a new clip when the camera obviously wasn't started or stopped. Anyone else noted this? Had it on both my PC's

March 2nd, 2007, 09:57 AM	#6
Alan Craig Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Warrington England Posts: 143	mysterious stops and starts I dont realy know but it just might have something to do with the way your hard drive is formatted. If it has been formatted as fat32 there is a limit on the size of file you can make, if it is formatted as ntfs you can make very much larger file sizes if not unlimited check how your hd is formatted hope this is of some help

March 2nd, 2007, 12:54 PM	#8
Dan Wilder Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 29	Don't rule out your firewire port Don't rule out the firewire port on your PC as a potential cause. If I use the firewire port integrated on my laptop to capture, I can count on at least one or two dropouts per tape. The same port works fine with external hard drives. I switched to a $30 PCMCIA firewire card and I have zero dropouts. I'm also into PC-based, multi-track audio recording where continuous data streams at very low latencies are important. It's common knowledge in that arena that not all firewire ports are created equal. Interfaces using either a TI or VIA firewire chips are generally preferred. Firewire/USB combo cards can also be suspect. On both of my desktop systems I have the integrated firewire ports disabled and use a $20 PCI card instead. I'm not saying it can't be the camera. I don't know about the A1 as I'm awaiting delivery of my unit. I'm just suggesting that dropout problems can also be caused by factors other than the camera itself. Also check to see if the hard drive you are capturing to is heavily fragmented. -Dan

March 2nd, 2007, 02:47 AM	#2
Neil McLean Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: U.K. Posts: 125	It could quite simply be dropped frames. What type of tapes have you been using to shoot HDV?

March 2nd, 2007, 04:55 AM	#3
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	I haven't found unexpected breaks, but when I capture HDV in Vegas with auto scene detection I often get the scene division one or 2 frames late. Not sure if this is inherent to HDV or just a "feature" of Vegas capture. Richard

March 2nd, 2007, 05:52 AM	#4
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	I'm still on the Canon tape supplied with the camera. It's early days for me and I'm not at my PC. Not sure if the HDV capture interface has any options for scene detection or not. Just to clarify, it's occuring where I wouldn't expect it to. I was shooting 30 mins un-interupted and it split it into three clips? Had the same with a shorter section I filmed of approx 5mins un-interupted. It just started a new clip out of the blue.

March 2nd, 2007, 09:43 AM	#5
Dave Halliday Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 116	I've had issues too. The issues seem to be "getting better" as I learn how to work with the camera, but I still get very funky very unexpected stuff sometimes.

March 2nd, 2007, 01:12 PM	#9
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	It's happened on a brand new frash 160Gb Laptop drive and also on an external fresh formatted drive. Both NTFS so file size issues not the culprit.

March 3rd, 2007, 08:06 AM	#10
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	I don't have that problem with both my A1s. I use FCP and the built in firewire port. Record to either an external drive or an internal, never had this happen either way. Patrick

March 3rd, 2007, 08:19 AM	#11
Philip Hinkle Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Stoughton, WI Posts: 169	If your external laptop drive is a 5400rpm drive the drive speed may be part of the problem. Laptop external drives aren't usually as robust and desktop ones. I have one that works well for my but I haven't tried HDV on it yet...just DV.

March 3rd, 2007, 11:33 AM	#12
Doug Davis Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Birmingham Alabama Posts: 259	I was shooting a wedding a couple weeks ago and I had that issue... It was about 30 min of footage in one solid take and it divided it out in 3 clips...? Possibly and HDV buffer running out? I am REALLY curious to know what is causing this... In one of my shots someone was at the beginning of the isle (splits the clip) and then is at the end of the isle... I capture with vegas and it is set to stop on dropped frames so that is not the issue...

March 4th, 2007, 04:57 AM	#14
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,887	Alistair, try a different firewire cable; be careful to connect it with the camera switched off and carefully push the little pluggers right in.

March 4th, 2007, 07:02 AM	#15
Gert Kracht Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ens, The Netherlands Posts: 198	Maybe this sounds wierd, but still I have to mention a few experiences from the past: A good friend has a normal PAL camera from Panasonic. When capturing video from the camera, placing it nearby a monitor (with normal TV Tube). The magnetic signals who surround the monitor had strong influence on the capturing. Many dropped frames etc... He started using a more expensive and shielded cable. The problems almost went from 100% to zero. Almost. After that we changed the shielding on the 230 Volt outlet. Better ground and from there on all problems were solved. The same problems can occure when a PCI card is used for capturing. On older machines the speed of some cards are not good enough. These days the built in 1394 are much better. On laptops there is the issue of using 16 bits or 32 bits slot PCMCIA cards. Some of the cards are not fast enough. At home I use a AMD X2-4400 PC system on a Asus A8N-SLI Premium motherbord with 2 Gig memory. When connected to the 1394 on the back. No problems. But, in my Cooler Master Stacker tower there is also a 1394 on the front. The cable on the inside has (i think) some shielding problems and when I use this connection, some problems are: dropped frames. Yesterday I built a new PC for a friend and he has almost the same hardware as my computer. Only difference: new Stacker tower and Core Duo PC. We did some capturing on that: no problems. We captured 30 minutes of footage. The only strange thing: Adobe Premiere does not show a 'live' screen when capturing HDV. Pinnacle Studio 10 does. I think overall you could say it all counts up: cables, hardware and software.