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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old March 8th, 2007, 10:36 AM   #1
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Saw The Thread About No Limiter On XHA1 - Bummer.

Still on the fence on XHA1, although had been leaning strongly towards upgrading to it. This no limiter, no individual adjustments off of one mike feed thing kind of makes me leary. In lieu of not having a limiter, and not being able to feed two different channels, SET AT TWO DIFFERENT LEVELS (one as the "safe" level), can you instead feed the camera with one mike that goes to both channels, and then use the pad on one channel, but not the other? That would accomplish the same task as having one hot channel, one safe channel. Has anyone tried this? I'm guessing it might work, but perhaps only if it's the second channel that you ATT, meaning the channel you aren't actively plugged into. (Mike to CH1. Feed to both CH1 & CH2. Turn on ATT on CH2). If this works, it's a fair enough work around, if not, that's a bummer.
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Old March 8th, 2007, 11:05 AM   #2
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I don't know what the specs say but I have had great results using this camera. The audio is much better controlled going from soft sounds to loud areas than I got with a DVX100. Even while close to a speaker with a live band.
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Old March 8th, 2007, 11:12 AM   #3
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The specs say no limiter, and if you're using it in manual, trying to use up the available bits, as to get the best source sound possible, at least on one channel, chances are you'll go over on that channel at some point or another, unless it's limited. To get around using/needing a limiter, my standard practice has been always to keep one channel set anywhere from 12-20 db lower than the other, so that if I do go over on my "hot" channel, I've still got my "safe" channel which never reached zero, and the two can be edited together in post. Looking at the way that there are independent ATT switches on the XLR ins on A1, it would seem logical that you might be able to attenuate the one channel but not the other from the same feed, which could for many people, surplant the immediate need for a limiter.
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Old March 8th, 2007, 02:19 PM   #4
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Workaround Idea Is No Go....

Just got off the phone with Canon, and just as I was suspecting, the workaround is a no go, because when you use one mike to feed both inputs, the configuration is hardwired serial, meaning the mike would feed CH1 which in turn would feed CH2, instead of parallel, where the mike input would individually split the signal to CH1 & CH2. Only way to use the idea I normally use, and was suggesting is with a XLR Y-cable on the inputs.

Last edited by Todd Mattson; March 8th, 2007 at 02:56 PM.
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Old March 8th, 2007, 02:20 PM   #5
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you could do the same thing with a mic pad....
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Old March 8th, 2007, 02:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meryem Ersoz View Post
you could do the same thing with a mic pad....
Actually a pad would become unneeded if you're feeding the same signal into both channels via a Y cable, as now you would be able to adjust individually, but the signal will degrade slightly in comparison being that it's a cabled solution and not internal, also making it slightly unwieldy, depending on how short of Y you can get/make. Just seems, at least in comparison to the rest of the camera's design, that they packed all the big shortcomings into the audio section. And it's all moot if you use a mixer, of course, but there are at least three things I can think of that they could have left off the camera in order to make the audio section a little more equal to the rest of the camera.
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Old March 8th, 2007, 02:29 PM   #7
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I've been using an XLR Y adapter for that very purpose for many years on 2/3" chip pro cameras that don't have a limiter. I've never had a camera with one, so it doesn't bother me. I record one channel at where it ought to be, and the second channel about 5 db lower. I thought everybody did that because it's standard procedure for everyone I've known who shoots professionally, when doing interviews.
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Old March 8th, 2007, 02:49 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Bill Pryor View Post
I've been using an XLR Y adapter for that very purpose for many years on 2/3" chip pro cameras that don't have a limiter. I've never had a camera with one, so it doesn't bother me. I record one channel at where it ought to be, and the second channel about 5 db lower. I thought everybody did that because it's standard procedure for everyone I've known who shoots professionally, when doing interviews.
Either internally or with a Y I've been doing this forever as well, except I prefer not to have to have that Y cable dangling there or adapter sticking out prone to breakage; it's just nicer when the camera allows you to do it in camera, one less thing to worry about, and the signal, although just slightly, is cleaner, simply due to less distance travelled. Not a deal breaker for me, just kind of a "why didn't they do it THIS way" kind of thing.
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Old March 10th, 2007, 01:14 AM   #9
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I shoot for an airplane restoration society and definately need limiting when piston aero engines arrive. I'm rarely able to estimate the peak audio levels and if I under record to avoid distortion the preceeding audio is usually too low, can't adjust the gain on the run.

Sooo I need a great limiter and probably would have an A1 by now but for the lack of one.

Thought of running a Sound Devices Pre in the chain, it has a 2 stage limiter?, is small enough but the cables may be a problem.

Has anyone managed that or have other suggestions? Thx.
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Old March 10th, 2007, 02:12 AM   #10
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I'm not sure if this would work for anyone else in this thread, but there is a workaround found on the forum to achieve a sort of pseudo soft limiter. It's what I'm using until a possible firmware update resolves this.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=82268

Bill
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