Frame rate vs. shutter speed at DVinfo.net

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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old March 11th, 2007, 09:52 PM   #1
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Frame rate vs. shutter speed

It seems like the only frame rate or shutter speed that will not strobe is 60i, is that correct or am I missing something. Why is it the shutter speed indicated as TV mode on the dial. Getting happier with my two new twins...Gary
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Old March 11th, 2007, 10:42 PM   #2
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Tv = Time value. Shutter speed is a function of time.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 10:46 PM   #3
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And I thought TV means TV, how 50's am I, any way to have smoother pans in anything other than 60i. Gary
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Old March 12th, 2007, 04:30 AM   #4
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Strobing is just the nature of 24p and 30p. Video 24p is a simulation of film...and the strobing is a side-effect of the simulation. That and the smaller imager size compared to 35mm film (35 has less depth of field and therefore strobing isn't as apparent) makes the problem worse.

I wish people who make documentaries weren't obsessed with the frame rate because any handheld shots done in 24p (and most indy documentaries have a decent amount) make me dizzy. Details get lost in the blur...no good IMO. Gunner Palace and Supersize Me (video to film to DVD transfer) come to mind. To each their own though. Content is what really matters and both of these docs entertained (sorry to go off on a tangent).

Shooting 30p (or 30f, in Canon's case) should yield smoother results. However...you can't easily (read: without making it look ugly) transfer 30p to the PAL format. But if you're certain you will only be distributing your project on NTSC...you're gold.

I vaguely remember seeing a post about shooting 24p at 1/80 shutter. This may have been for a different camera...but it's worth a shot...I guess.

A good discussion about the video strobing issue can be found here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=72722
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Old March 12th, 2007, 09:35 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J. Walker View Post
And I thought TV means TV, how 50's am I, any way to have smoother pans in anything other than 60i. Gary
There are actually guidelines in pans when shooting 24fps. Its basically a duration of time when panning across a particular distance and I can tell you its slow. This strobing is a common occurance in film, watch a few movies and youll see it.

There are a few tricks though to make it more seemless. One being panning on action, like an actor walking, pan at same speed and first watch no one will notice. Whip pans, whip pan and zoom.

Shutter is more an artistic choice than anything. Though below 1/48th youre getting a videoish look.
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Old March 12th, 2007, 11:11 AM   #6
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It seems that looking on the LCD the strobing is more exaggerated than what is actually recorded to tape... During playback it seems to look much smoother..
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Old March 12th, 2007, 11:16 AM   #7
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Thanks for the imput, My main concern is being one of those "wedding guys", (don't let that out), during reception fast dance scenes, I'm trying to get the best low light performance, 30 vs 60, but can't put up with the strobing, especially with the "chicken dance"!!! Thanks again, Gary
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Old March 12th, 2007, 01:42 PM   #8
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The other way that 24P appears to have a smoothness is during projection, each frame is flashed twice and our persistence of vision fills in the missing part. The darker the viewing area, the longer our persistence of vision because of our dilated pupils. That's why theaters are darkened. Not just to make the image bright, but to help our persistence of vision work at such a low frame rate.

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