Choppy 24f. How can it be shot to look more fluid? - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old April 20th, 2007, 06:17 PM   #16
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Just checked mine and 24f defaults to 1/24 as well
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Old April 20th, 2007, 10:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Pryor View Post
It worked nicely because 1/60 is the proper shutter speed for shooting 30fps.
But I went into Magic Bullet and eventually made everything 24p......not 30p.

I edited the video in Vegas before I converted the video to 24p in MB and that helped me get the slow-mo effect I wanted later.

Only after each scene was fully edit, then I converted it to 24p.
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Old April 20th, 2007, 11:58 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bob Benkosky View Post
But I went into Magic Bullet and eventually made everything 24p......not 30p.

I edited the video in Vegas before I converted the video to 24p in MB and that helped me get the slow-mo effect I wanted later.

Only after each scene was fully edit, then I converted it to 24p.
None the less, you still shot it in 30 fps. Sure you can edit it to look like 24 fps, but it's not true 24p unless you shoot it in that form. And besides, it's not like the camera only shoots in 24f at 1/48th shutter speed. It's got 30f and 60i as well if you're going for a certain look. It all depends on what you're going for.
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Old April 21st, 2007, 10:35 AM   #19
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I think Bob was talking about his GL2. Magic Bullet does a great job of deinterlacing and converting to 24p, but you still get some of the pulldown look, versus the smoother, steady motion of native 24p shooting. Magic Bullet and Nattress effects seem to do the conversion better than anything else (for the money), in what I've seen.
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Old April 21st, 2007, 04:19 PM   #20
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What you may be seeing is frame judder. This is a byproduct of 24 frames per second which is noticeable particularly during pan shots of exteriors. You see this in not only digital but film during pan shots.
I hate judder. To avoid it, when shooting a project in 24p, shoot your pan shots in 30p.
My experience.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 02:48 PM   #21
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The nature of 24F

I wast testing the capabilities of 24f the other day and I found out that even though I was using High shutter speeds (above 1/48) to avoid frame judder I still see some when the person moved, I was filming straight at a person without paning or moving the camera. I noticed this everytime the person made gestures or moved her head. My question is if this is the normal nature of 24f ?
Oh in case you guys need to know I shoot in sd mode 24f, I edited the video in vegas 6 using the 24p sd template for wide screen, reder out to the 24p mpeg setting for dvd architecht so I could watch it in my tv.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 02:58 PM   #22
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Has anyone shot 1080 30fps with a high shutter speed to get that action look? It would be real nice to see what the results are for people like me who shoot more action shots in brightly lit conditions. I guess I'll have to invest in some ND filters to knock some light out. Can you fit any filters behind the lens hood? Thanks for your time.

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Old May 9th, 2007, 02:59 PM   #23
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To avoid jitter you will probably want a slower shutter speed, not faster... For most things you would probably want a little bit of motion blur... A high shutter speed creates a "stop motion" effect... That is what is partially creating some of the jitter... May try 1/24 1/48 1/60...
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Old May 9th, 2007, 03:01 PM   #24
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Going higher than 48/60 shutter speed will introduce a new type of judder even at 60i.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 03:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Gorski View Post
Has anyone shot 1080 30fps with a high shutter speed to get that action look? It would be real nice to see what the results are for people like me who shoot more action shots in brightly lit conditions. I guess I'll have to invest in some ND filters to knock some light out. Can you fit any filters behind the lens hood? Thanks for your time.

Gorski
To get that hardcore action effect (like gladiator) you almost want ultra low frame rates (10 to 15fps) and high shutter speeds... I read somewhere that on gladiator they used a frame rate of like 11 or 12 or something like that... So unless you were going to try too do some slow motion stuff with an action sequence 24p would probably be your best bet...
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Old May 9th, 2007, 03:20 PM   #26
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Alain, a shutter speed higher than 1/48 may cause some strangeness, just as does a speed higher than 1/60 for NTSC interlace video.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 03:35 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Villalba View Post
Going higher than 48/60 shutter speed will introduce a new type of judder even at 60i.

I shoot at different shutters speeds including 1/48 and I still notice it. It is not that noticeable like it bothers but is there. It's really hard to explain, I'm new to the 24f world so probably this motion is normal. I thought it would look smooth as a real movie made with a film camera. I just want to know if this is a characteristic of 24f and how smooth the movement or motion should look compared to film ?.
Thanks
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Old May 9th, 2007, 03:56 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Bill Pryor View Post
Alain, a shutter speed higher than 1/48 may cause some strangeness, just as does a speed higher than 1/60 for NTSC interlace video.
thanks, Could you answer my other question about the motion of 24f at 1/48 (normal shutter speed)? How smooth it should look when people move or make gestures when the cam is steady?. Because like I said before I see some type of motion which bothers me a little but probably it is ok with 24fps. I'm used to perceive the motion of hollywood films which in my opinion looks smooth I know they are shot in Film which is very differet from digital, just making a point to explain what I'm seeing in my video . I'm planning to make a movie or a documentary not sure yet and I want to be sure this is how 24f looks or there is something wrong I'm doing.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 04:09 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Davis View Post
To get that hardcore action effect (like gladiator) you almost want ultra low frame rates (10 to 15fps) and high shutter speeds... I read somewhere that on gladiator they used a frame rate of like 11 or 12 or something like that... So unless you were going to try too do some slow motion stuff with an action sequence 24p would probably be your best bet...
There is a difference between fps and shutter speed.

You have shutter speed (1/12 sec) and 12 fps. At 1/12 sec shutter you get blur. At 12 fps you get high speed or if you duplicate every frame you get an stutter effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alain Mayo View Post
I shoot at different shutters speeds including 1/48 and I still notice it. It is not that noticeable like it bothers but is there. It's really hard to explain, I'm new to the 24f world so probably this motion is normal. I thought it would look smooth as a real movie made with a film camera. I just want to know if this is a characteristic of 24f and how smooth the movement or motion should look compared to film ?.
Thanks
I haven't used the 24f with the A1, but I always use it with my HVX 200 and the HV20.
The trick to use a frame rate other than 60i is to keep your moving subject in the same spot on your lcd or viewfinder.
If you concentrate on the background while seeing a movie you'll notice motion blur also.
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Old May 10th, 2007, 06:36 AM   #30
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Any one else could explain how smooth 24f should look ?

Thanks.

Last edited by Alain Mayo; May 10th, 2007 at 06:39 AM. Reason: added words
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