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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old April 16th, 2007, 02:04 PM   #1
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Matching Sony HC1 with A1

Anybody has done this? I have a Sony HC1 and thinking to get a A1 for my work. Any advise would be appreciated.
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Old April 16th, 2007, 02:35 PM   #2
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There should be a custom present for this. Do a search.
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Old April 16th, 2007, 03:50 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Eric Chan View Post
Anybody has done this? I have a Sony HC1 and thinking to get a A1 for my work. Any advise would be appreciated.
http://www.jcdv.com/PRESET/PRESET20.CPF (rightclick save-as)

This was my first one and have tweaked it since... but still comes very close. Do a search on the preset thread as I have more info on it there.

EDIT... they look similar, but the A1 blows the HC1 out the water in everything else. Just make sure you know how to use that HC1 to fullest potential.
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Old April 16th, 2007, 04:49 PM   #4
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So, I guess the idea is to tweak the A1 image (by using a custom preset) to look like HC1...

Can I do the other way around, color corrected HC1 footage in post to match with the A1? Is it a recommended approach?
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Old April 16th, 2007, 07:23 PM   #5
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I tried doing this just 2 weeks ago, it is tough to do, the Sony looks extremely 'synthetic' compared to the 'organic' look of the XH-A1. I just screwed around in Magic Bullet to get the shots to Semi-Match. I will DEFINATELY be putting that HC1 preset to use for this years wedding season. Thank you very much for the preset Jerome, if you have a revised preset please let me know.

Eric, feel free to take a look at the clip below. Let me know if you can tell which shots are the HC1 vs A1, but the way I edited and coloured the shots did a semi-competent job in hiding the fact that it was multple different cameras.

I am refraining from putting up the 720P version to preserve bandwidth but you can take a look yourself, here is a short clip.

You WILL need to create an account if you dont have one already.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.ph...EE6D03621CAAB2
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Old April 16th, 2007, 08:06 PM   #6
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Micheal... thanks for sharing your clip. I think I was able to figure out the HC1 shoots, especially the moving shoot toward the end with the 3 flower girls. Some of the images in your clip are pretty dark comparing to the rest of them. Are those shoot by the HC1? It seems that there wasn't a lot of light in the church.
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Old April 16th, 2007, 08:23 PM   #7
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LOL u are right, that 3 girl shot screams HC1, as I did nothing but apply as basic colour correction to that shot.

as for the some of the shots being dark,the reason was that some of the footage was taken @ nite during the rehearsal meanwhile other shots were taken durign the day with tons of light coming into the windows.

Basically ALL the steadicam shots are HC1, and ALL tripod footage is XH-A1.
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Old April 16th, 2007, 09:49 PM   #8
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Thank you very much for the preset Jerome, if you have a revised preset please let me know.
No problem.... when I update the preset more I'll post it or just replace that file. BTW, watch this clip and tell me which ones are the HC1... HINT, there are 8 shots from the HC1....

http://www.jcdv.com/WMV/rachel_russell_cta.wmv
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Old April 16th, 2007, 10:11 PM   #9
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LOL Jermoe, that is almos an impossible ordeal to figrue out... I really cant tell, altho one of hte close ups of the groom int the church had him a tad pink-ish (HC!), other then that I kept on wondering if the spiderman 3 album included that trailer song!
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Old April 16th, 2007, 10:31 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Michael Y Wong View Post
LOL Jermoe, that is almos an impossible ordeal to figrue out... I really cant tell, altho one of hte close ups of the groom int the church had him a tad pink-ish (HC!), other then that I kept on wondering if the spiderman 3 album included that trailer song!
Here are the HC1 shots:
B&W Balcony in opening
Outside church shot sequence prior to ceremony (Tree Church, Sign, Bow on railing)
Bride walking in (2 shots of this)
Quick shot of woman's face
Bride doing the "oh yes motion with hands" from the side

There was purple stained glass in there.. in fact, all the glass was purple! No matter how you WB in there, it was purple. I took out alot in post though... that shot was the A1.

I think that song is in spiderman3... didn't know that till the other day. It was in a zipfile someone gave me a little bit ago.
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Old April 25th, 2008, 02:47 PM   #11
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Sorry to bring this thread back to life, but I'm a current HC1 owner seriously considering getting an XH-A1. At first I was thinking of getting the XH-A1 to replace my HC1, but now i'm thinking to seriously keep the HC1 to try and match with the A1 when a situation calls for it. When matching with the HC1 though, since I saw in this thread that the HC1 seemed synthetic, does that mean you'd be reducing the quality of the XH-A1's image to match it?

Also, a year after the fact.. would the HC1 owners here still consider getting the XH-A1, or is there something else out there? The price point on it is what seems perfect to me. I want to jump forward, but can only jump so far.

One of the things I would really like is CF ability also because I will mainly be using my camera to record standup, both of myself and other performers. I would like to have hard copies of my performances on HDV for when I need them, but for other performers who want a DVD of their set, I would like ease in being able to quickly get their DVDs out and delete the footage.
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Old April 26th, 2008, 12:48 PM   #12
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Hi,
any chance of getting those HC1-presets back on-line? Could those be included as part of the Chris' Custom Presets thread?

Thanks in advance,

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Old April 26th, 2008, 05:50 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Shahryar Rizvi View Post
does that mean you'd be reducing the quality of the XH-A1's image to match it?

Also, a year after the fact.. would the HC1 owners here still consider getting the XH-A1
1. Depends on what you call "reducing quality". Many people think that the colors are too saturated and such and that "reduces quality".

2. I would. BUT BUT BUT, you gotta learn BOTH cameras and KNOW how to use them to fit each other. See my next response in the request of posting the presets.
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Old April 26th, 2008, 06:08 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Matti Remonen View Post
Hi,
any chance of getting those HC1-presets back on-line? Could those be included as part of the Chris' Custom Presets thread?

Thanks in advance,

Matti Remonen
Probably not Matti. You see -- and I REALLY do NOT want to sound like I'm being too "private" or not willing to share... but I STRONGLY feel that a user must actually learn the camera and not rely on a preset. There are MANY posts on here of people asking repeated times something like "Is there are preset for shooting _______________________?" It kills me. There are tons of presets in the preset thread. You must find a schema that provides a base look of what you are going after and use it properly for whatever type of scene you are actually shooting in. For instance, a "dance recital stage preset" is not going to work well in all dance recital stage events!!! How is it lit? What type of lights are being used? How much light is there? and many more factors that will result in various results from a single preset.

When I had those earlier versions of the preset online, I got several emails asking why the footage didn't match their footage when using the preset and crap like that. Well, chances are, I shoot with my HC1 different than they did. ALSO, I do slight color correction and levels adjustments in post using Sony Vegas.... so the straight preset footage is never used... both cameras' footage is altered somewhat in post.

Spend time learning the camera. Use the trial version of Canon Console to play with the preset settings as you can preview it live on your monitor. BTW, calibrate the monitor! OR if you want to get technical, use Adobe OnLocation and setup a colorbar chart and shoot with the HC1 and record the RGB values for each color bar starting with the primary colors (RGB) and then hook up the A1 and tweak the preset settings until you get really close matches. Then go shoot all kinds of stuff (same composition and exposure with zebras) with both cameras and then play them back side by side for a comparison.

For weddings, I use 3 presets... 1 normal light up to 6db gain, 1 for 12db gain only, and an EMERGENCY 18db gain that softens the image (not as bad as that TrueColor preset) and minimizes noise WITHOUT using NR1! Hint: Coring & HDF. On a 1080 monitor, all 3 are very acceptable without that glistening dancing funky grain... hint: you must preview on a 1080 monitor!!!!! Even 12db on default OTB settings shows the funky grain I was mentioning (and you often hear about when people say "don't shoot anything over 6db (some say lower)" You CAN fix it to shoot higher gain with a slight hit on quality (sharpness, color saturation)....

Steven Dempsey and others share their hard work and I commend them for that! I worked alongside another videographer MANY miles away via numerous phone calls and email exchanges that also contributed to my presets... we both strongly feel that a user of any camera must really dive into that camera and learn to use it properly and the fact that there is not a magical preset.

So, learn the camera and experiment.... don't settle for a magical preset alone.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 05:02 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Jerome Cloninger View Post
Probably not Matti. You see -- and I REALLY do NOT want to sound like I'm being too "private" or not willing to share... but I STRONGLY feel that a user must actually learn the camera and not rely on a preset.
OK, just asking. Basically this answer goes with any other request in this site. Everything can be found out if someone just puts enough effort to it. But your call, it's your preset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Cloninger View Post
Use the trial version of Canon Console to play with the preset settings as you can preview it live on your monitor.
I could, if it would support Vista...

Anyway, happy shooting.
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