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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old April 27th, 2007, 04:12 PM   #1
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The Canon A1 and Blackmagic Intensity Pro

Whats drawing me to the Sony HVR1 is the ability to use the HDMI port in the future to capture uncompressed HD video with 4:2:2 color space when its feasible solution down the road. Now is it possible to capture the same uncompressed HD 4:2:2 video out of the A1 via the Blackmagic HD Extreme card? I know its an analog signal and that leads me to my main question. Is there a substantial difference in the quality of image converted from analog to a digital signal via the HD Extreme as opposed the the V1's HDMI port that can be connected to Blackmagic's Intensity that is already receiving a digital signal. If anyone has any idea or can correct me if I'm wrong anywhere that would be appreciated. Thanks.

Gorski

Last edited by Mike Gorski; April 27th, 2007 at 05:03 PM.
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Old April 28th, 2007, 10:04 AM   #2
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I've actually came across some posts on DVX forum regarding this but it looks like the analog output is 4:2:2 8 bit. The screen shots looked like they showed a little more information regarding color but inconclusive for high motion video with regard to results.
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Old April 28th, 2007, 12:34 PM   #3
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Mike,

I hope someone has some knowledge on this, I think there are
a few of us who would like to know more about the options, if
there are any, for getting uncompressed footage out of the A-1.

Anyone?

David
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Old April 28th, 2007, 11:46 PM   #4
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Guys unfortunately there is no way to capture uncompressed footage off the XHA1. The Sony V1 has HDMI output, which is what allows you to capture uncrompressed footage. The A1 doesn't have this.

If you want a Canon that can output uncompressed footage you have to buy the XHG1 - uncompressed output is basically what you pay double the price for (it's otherwise identical to the A1).

So unless someone develops an affordable modification to the A1 to ouput uncompressed footage (like Reel-Stream's Hydra mod for the HVX), I'm afraid you're out of luck.
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Old April 29th, 2007, 09:44 AM   #5
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"So unless someone develops an affordable modification to the A1 to ouput uncompressed footage (like Reel-Stream's Hydra mod for the HVX),..."

Has anyone, I wonder, heard of any developments in that direction...at NAB
for instance?

David
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Old April 30th, 2007, 10:42 AM   #6
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See also this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=92643
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Old April 30th, 2007, 05:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kenfield View Post
Guys unfortunately there is no way to capture uncompressed footage off the XHA1. The Sony V1 has HDMI output, which is what allows you to capture uncrompressed footage. The A1 doesn't have this.

If you want a Canon that can output uncompressed footage you have to buy the XHG1 - uncompressed output is basically what you pay double the price for (it's otherwise identical to the A1).

So unless someone develops an affordable modification to the A1 to ouput uncompressed footage (like Reel-Stream's Hydra mod for the HVX), I'm afraid you're out of luck.
Not true Mark.
The A1 sends an 8-bit 4:2:2 signal through the component output
in the same fashion as the G1 sends an 8-bit 4:2:2 signal through the SDI output. In both cases, Pre HDV compression in a live scenario.
In the case of the G1, the output path is digital.
The output path on the A1 is via digital to analog conversion.
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Old April 30th, 2007, 06:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Gorski View Post
Whats drawing me to the Sony HVR1 is the ability to use the HDMI port in the future to capture uncompressed HD video with 4:2:2 color space when its feasible solution down the road.
Gorski
Mike,

One thing to remember. If you recorded the footage to HDV tape or an M2T hard drive device, your footage was recorded using 4:2:0 MPEG-2. While you can output that footage via HDMI as a 4:2:2 digital stream, it cannot restore lost color information.

Now capturing live from the HDMI stream is another thing, although I would prefer the G1's HD-SDI for this purpose as it contains time code as well. Not sure if that's available via HDMI.
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Old April 30th, 2007, 08:28 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Paul Matwiy View Post
Mike,

One thing to remember. If you recorded the footage to HDV tape or an M2T hard drive device, your footage was recorded using 4:2:0 MPEG-2. While you can output that footage via HDMI as a 4:2:2 digital stream, it cannot restore lost color information.

Now capturing live from the HDMI stream is another thing, although I would prefer the G1's HD-SDI for this purpose as it contains time code as well. Not sure if that's available via HDMI.
Paul I agree. The HDMI capability of the Sony HVR-V1 is really attractive because I know I will be shooting high motion video. HDV is notorious for having problems swallowing the short GOP signal as opposed to a relatively steady picture with a long GOP which cuts down on the small CPU's work load to effectively compress the HD signal to a 25 MB/s stream. Utilizing the new Apple Lossless ProRes 422 codec with the new AJA IO-HD camcorder, I will have an option in the future to capture Uncompressed HD quality video at SD size files that are manable. I'm not sure how the unit will process high motion video but being its a dedicated unit for sole purposes of compressing the HD signal it must be substantially better than the HDV stream. I looking for options in the future to make my investment last longer I guess. Hard decision to make in the coming months.

Something I wanted to add that I forgot. I'm curious to see how well the A1's analog signal can be converted to a digital signal and if its significantly better than the HDV stream to make it worth the investment of other equipment in the future to tap into it. I know the V1 is digital which is huge so if the A1's analog signal can be effectively converted to a digital one via the AJA IO-HD that will allow me to shoot high motion video with less chances of glitches in the video I'm excited. I really like the A1 especially the larger sensors and higher pixel count. The V1's low light performance is another reason that makes me doubt the 1/4" CMOS sensors and noise issues.
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