A1 capture into FCP; where's the Time code at DVinfo.net

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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old May 13th, 2007, 06:09 PM   #1
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A1 capture into FCP; where's the Time code

Shooting at 1080i/60 and using the appropriate Apple Intermediate Codec, I capture using the Capture Now command after the tape is playing and hit escape just before the tape finishes.

FCP nicely applies Start/stop detection to break up the clips and accurately populates the duration field. Problem is the Media start field is ALWAYS reset to 00;00;00;00 and hence there is no time code.

Question 1: is this the correct way to capture from tape to hard drive?
Question 2: What do I have to do to get time code?

Thanks in advance
Jim Babcock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13th, 2007, 08:45 PM   #2
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Hi Jim,

One of the ways you can get some fast answers to these questions
is to give the search function on this amazing site a try.
This topic has been covered pretty well and has some clearer
explanations than I can give you - but there is a reason the time
code doesn't show up...
You seem to be capturing correctly.

All the best,

David
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Old May 14th, 2007, 07:22 AM   #3
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I capture at HDV 1080i60 Easy Setup and have time code with no problems. If you're at 24f, you'll need the latest update, 5.1.4, of Final Cut.

(And David, I searched on various combinations of "FCP", "Apple Intermediate Codec", and "AIC", along with "time code" and didn't see anything that answered Jim's questions. Do you have links?)
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Old May 14th, 2007, 08:52 AM   #4
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Chuck,

Here's one of a long list:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...XH-A1+timecode

it discusses the XH A1 and not being able to have timecode when capturing...


David
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Old May 15th, 2007, 03:20 PM   #5
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Problem solved

Oops. I just needed to upgrade to 5.1.4. Works like a charm now. I had been using 5.0.4 quite happily and had never felt the urge to move up.

Of course, now that I've upgraded, they today started shipping 6.0 with all of it's soon to be discovered .0 issues!

Sorry for the bother.


Jim B
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Old May 15th, 2007, 03:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Fadely View Post
I capture at HDV 1080i60 Easy Setup and have time code with no problems. If you're at 24f, you'll need the latest update, 5.1.4, of Final Cut.
When shooting in 24f which Easy Setup do you use?

HDV-Apple Intermediate Codec 1080i60

or

HDV-1080p24

I have been using the latter but the FCP guru at the local Apple store suggested the AIC setup claiming better quality and faster rendering. I've done both and really can't see a difference.

One thing I'm confused on is: doesn't the A1 use pull down to automatically to change the 24f to 29.97? If this is the case then isn't best to edit in a 29.97 timeline as opposed ot a 24 timeline?

Thanks.
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Old May 15th, 2007, 05:23 PM   #7
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The canon records 24 fps to tape. It sends 29.97 fps out the componet jack with the extra frames so your TV can play it.

I edit 24f in a 24p timeline.
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Old May 15th, 2007, 08:59 PM   #8
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David, you're a little confused.

This thread is about retaining time code in a NLE timeline while editing.

The thread you linked to is about jamming or synching timecode to another device -- same words, but totally different meanings. The XHA1 doesn't have timecode synch -- you need the XHG1 for that.

Anyway, back to Jim's original question: to capture at 24F into a 24p timeline, you need the 5.1.4 update to Final Cut and you need the 1080p24 easy setup.

The pulldown in the camera is for the video out to monitor the picture. Over the firewire, you can get 24F to play nice with a 24p timeline.

If you're shooting at 1080i60 or at 30F, use the 1080i60 easy setup and capture away. Don't make things harder than they have to be. Everything else about this stuff is challenging enough without trying to do voodoo in capture. Your shooting technique will have a far greater impact on the final image than whether you use AIC or convert to HDPro or anything. Most of the intermediate steps are to deal with compatibility problems between different editing systems. If you're on Final Cut and staying in Final Cut, use the easy setup.

Chuck




Quote:
Originally Posted by David McGiffert View Post
Chuck,

Here's one of a long list:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...XH-A1+timecode

it discusses the XH A1 and not being able to have timecode when capturing...


David
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Old May 18th, 2007, 04:48 PM   #9
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I'm trying to figure out whether to use straight HDV or the apple intermediate codec as well

from what I've read, the HDV is straight HDV untouched and will output back to tape ontouched, whereas the codec does some compression.

but the reality is most people will be going to a dvd (SD downconverted) or online (some form of downsizing) delivery regardless, which would still require compression anyway.

I also can't play the HDV raw footage straight into a quicktime player outside of FCP - it will load, but audio only, picture is blank - only FCP will show it properly

I guess if someone wanted to deliver HDV as clean as possible as the final solution, they would go the HDV route - but this is me guessing as I'm still investigating this as I write this

trish
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Old May 18th, 2007, 05:43 PM   #10
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Unless the AIC is lossless, any type of intermediate codec will recompress, consequently resulting in the loss of quality. The less codecs are in your workflow, the better. I would think the best way is to capture in native HDV, edit in native HDV, and then output to whatever codec you will deliver in - if DVD is the destination, then edit everything in HDV, then encode to MPEG2-DVD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trish Kerr View Post
I'm trying to figure out whether to use straight HDV or the apple intermediate codec as well

from what I've read, the HDV is straight HDV untouched and will output back to tape ontouched, whereas the codec does some compression.

but the reality is most people will be going to a dvd (SD downconverted) or online (some form of downsizing) delivery regardless, which would still require compression anyway.

I also can't play the HDV raw footage straight into a quicktime player outside of FCP - it will load, but audio only, picture is blank - only FCP will show it properly

I guess if someone wanted to deliver HDV as clean as possible as the final solution, they would go the HDV route - but this is me guessing as I'm still investigating this as I write this

trish
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Old May 18th, 2007, 07:11 PM   #11
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Do you capture in raw HDV? Is that more the norm for others as well?

AIC does have some compression I believe. I'm wondering if it ends up getting compressed twice because we use compression after the edit as well.

I'll do some more researching.

trish
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Old May 19th, 2007, 02:02 AM   #12
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Trish,

I capture and edit in raw HDV in PPro2. The only compression step I have, as far as I know, is when exporting the timeline to MPEG2 stream just prior to DVD authoring.

Normally, the less compression steps are involved, the better. Consider the fact that when you are compressing from HDV to MPEG2-DVD, your bitrate drops about 60% (from 25Mbs HDV to 8Mbs DVD), even though the frame size gets smaller, resizing the frame itself introduces some artifacts. So, you really don't need any extra compression steps.

The AIC codec may be lossless, in which case it is no longer an issue. I know nothing about AIC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trish Kerr View Post
Do you capture in raw HDV? Is that more the norm for others as well?

AIC does have some compression I believe. I'm wondering if it ends up getting compressed twice because we use compression after the edit as well.

I'll do some more researching.

trish
Maksim Yankovskiy is offline   Reply
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