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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old May 25th, 2007, 08:23 PM   #1
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I need advices from professionals regarding A1

Hi guys of this best video forum!
I finally received the Canon A1 and soon will make my firs movie (document) with it.
I will visit couple of State parks in Utah, Arizona…..and need some advice from you guys.

I will be shooting 60i, because of smoothness, which I prefer over the 24f (jerkiness)…..how can you guys shoot 24f???....Can anyone please show me a footage 24f with some movement (pans)? My attempts look horrible (even if I pan very slowly on tripod!) on regular TV directly from camera or on dell monitor via composite (from camera)…it is not watchable. I used 24f and shutter 1/48….is there any trick in pp to make reasonable footage from 24f?
So most of the time I will try to use 60i and shutter 1/60……for slow motion 60i and 1/60 -1/120.for fast action i60 and 1/120………….(combined with ND or Polarizer to achieve the right exposure)
My question is: What shutter speed and aperture is acceptable for this kind of camera (chip)…..I would like to see numbers like you should definitely avoid aperture like…….I know about the frame rates versus shutter speed, but what about aperture? What is the (sweet spot) or bad (very bad) in terms of aperture?
Sorry if this is a (weird) question, but I really start with HDV and any advice from you professionals would be very valuable for me.
Also is there any good literature or video about all those things? (explanation how to properly shoot hd video in different conditions and what setting to use and how to do the best pp)
I appreciate any comments (I did a lot of searching and reading here on the forum, but still need more info about the whole thing)
Thank you very much guys
…can you also tell me what frame rate YOU prefer to use and why?
I need advices from professionals regarding A1

………..and one more question:)
I really guys appreciate your effort to help to people here and created the presets for A1 from this forum. Especially I like the VIVIDRGB from Steven! It is a great film looking preset and I would like to know if it could be used also inside (tungsten light) or under what conditions it works best……………doe’s exist a good preset for low light so I would not have to crank the gain much?
THX!
Roman Nittmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2007, 07:18 AM   #2
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Hi Roman

Congratulaions on your purchase - Utah and Arizona will look fantastic with this camera! Bryce canyon is supposed to be breathtaking

There was a discussion recently on jerkiness in pans and some sample video was shared

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.ph...hlight=pans+A1

and another

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.ph...hlight=pans+A1

discussion on choppy video in 24f

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91353

Also don't know what tripod you have, but obivously the better head versions will give better pan results. And camera handling practice as well.

On aperture it's a bit of a debate but some people say don't go any higher than F4-F5 if you can avoid it (or lower, I can't get that right) but basically avoid the higher F numbers F6,7,9

As far as sweet spot - I don't know - I know you can test for what your specific camera's sweet spot is with the lenses - but i've not seen that discussed here - just was reading about it in a book

use your zebra patterns to watch out for the highlights on all those rock formations - again a debate about how high to set it - search on the forum for that - 85-90 is where i have mine

search on zebra patterns settings and the Fstop to get more detailed discussions on those

keep the gain to a minimum unless you have no choice - lower shutter speed before adding too much gain - low light conditions

there is a preset for low light from that collection that steve's vividgrb is from - you could start with that - i'd experiment. Not sure if that one is more for indoor low lighting or low lighting in general

I think the frame rate issue is a debate - but alot of people here shoot in the 24f version to get a more film like quality.

the 60i might lend itself well to the big landscapes though, if you want it to look vivid as if you are looking right outside your window when played back on your HDTV.

Footage shot with interesting angles, details etc, is what makes things look better than any frame rate, so don't get too caught up that, especially if you are concerned the pans etc won't look good in the film mode.

I bought video shooter
http://www.amazon.com/Video-Shooter-.../dp/1578202892

I really liked it - basic camera techniques, what to avoid etc., white balance , aperature HDV, etc It was a good little book. Simple, fast read, lots of pics.

I also got DV Rebel's guide. More focused on action flicks on the cheap but he covers all kinds of cheapo ways to get good shots, and also do's and don'ts. But this is more for guerilla filmmaking.

I just picked up 'In the blink of an eye' for editing. Recommended in the DV Rebel book. Can't comment until I've gone thru it but it's supposed to be very good.

I'd go down to your closest provideo store and peruse the books on the shelf and talk to the guys at the counter who all are or have shot video. At least they do in Toronto.

And talk about the challenges of shooting where you are going and do's and don'ts etc. Pick their brains as much as you can.

IF you haven't, you might want to invest in a hoodman cover for the LCD with the 2 times magnify - i dont have one yet, but am going to get one, apparently they are quite good. You will probably want one in these outdoor conditions.

Regardless of what frame rate you shoot - you won't be able to go too wrong with this kind of scenery as your subject.

Just have fun with it
Trish
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Old May 26th, 2007, 07:38 AM   #3
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hey roman, don't overlook the 30F option. it looks less video-ish, and it handles motion with less constraints. if you are just going to web or DVD, it's a good choice.
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Old May 26th, 2007, 10:32 AM   #4
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Here's a thread on another board where I posted a clip following action, hand held, at 24fps, of a kid riding a bicycle. No judder.

http://www.dvfreelancer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3029

You may have to sign up to see the clip, I don't know, but it's easy to do.

This clip is a pretty high compression, so the quality isn't that good. I also shot it on auto iris and auto focus, just to test those out because I had never used any of the automatic stuff. Seemed to work OK in this instance.

When looking through the viewfinder or at the LCD, 24fps looks really jerky, but it doesn't record like that, assuming your have the shutter properly set at 1/48. Shooting 24 fps with a video camera is exactly like shooting 24 fps with a film camera, in terms of motion. You don't do fast pans except for an effect. If you watch any movie that has a wide angle shot, say of a person in the foreground, and a car drives by way in the background, you'll often see a little strobing, but in many cases the shallower depth of field will soften the background up a little and you never notice it because you're watching the foreground action.
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Old May 27th, 2007, 04:02 PM   #5
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Thank you all SOO MUCH!

Trish, I appreciate your time to write so log post with so much valuable information’s!!! I watched all links you posted and also ordered the book “video shooter” and I can say I have got much more clearer picture what to do and how……again Thank you very much for your time to help me...greetings to Canada!... I am originally from Czech Republic, but currently living in Chicago

Meryem, Yea, that seem to be an interesting option. I will try that soon too.

Bill The video clip you posted looks very good! I will do a lot of practice now and see for my self if I can use it or no. ..Thank you for your input too. I also followed your other comments on that link you provided and now I now much more!
Roman Nittmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2007, 04:07 PM   #6
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Between the 25f and the 50i, I still prefer 50i. I did a test with the 25F which gave pretty good results, but found for most subjects the 50i suits my needs best. I mainly use my footage for internet download, so all the 50i footage needs to be de-interlaced, it works really well, but if you save as 50fps (double PAL) in Vegas without de-interlacing things progress even further.

Mark.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 09:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman Nittmann View Post
Hi guys of this best video forum!

I will be shooting 60i, because of smoothness, which I prefer over the 24f (jerkiness)…..how can you guys shoot 24f???....Can anyone please show me a footage 24f with some movement (pans)?

Don't pan the width of the frame in less than 4 seconds and you'll not have problems with jerky motion.
Chris Santucci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30th, 2007, 07:23 AM   #8
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Anybody have an idea about the question about a version of VIVIDRGB for use under tungsten??
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Old May 31st, 2007, 04:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman Nittmann View Post
Hi guys of this best video forum!
I finally received the Canon A1 and soon will make my firs movie (document) with it.
I will visit couple of State parks in Utah, Arizona…..and need some advice from you guys.

I will be shooting 60i, because of smoothness, which I prefer over the 24f (jerkiness)…..how can you guys shoot 24f???....Can anyone please show me a footage 24f with some movement (pans)? My attempts look horrible (even if I pan very slowly on tripod!) on regular TV directly from camera or on dell monitor via composite (from camera)…it is not watchable. I used 24f and shutter 1/48….is there any trick in pp to make reasonable footage from 24f?
So most of the time I will try to use 60i and shutter 1/60……for slow motion 60i and 1/60 -1/120.for fast action i60 and 1/120………….(combined with ND or Polarizer to achieve the right exposure)
My question is: What shutter speed and aperture is acceptable for this kind of camera (chip)…..I would like to see numbers like you should definitely avoid aperture like…….I know about the frame rates versus shutter speed, but what about aperture? What is the (sweet spot) or bad (very bad) in terms of aperture?
Sorry if this is a (weird) question, but I really start with HDV and any advice from you professionals would be very valuable for me.
Also is there any good literature or video about all those things? (explanation how to properly shoot hd video in different conditions and what setting to use and how to do the best pp)
I appreciate any comments (I did a lot of searching and reading here on the forum, but still need more info about the whole thing)
Thank you very much guys
…can you also tell me what frame rate YOU prefer to use and why?
I need advices from professionals regarding A1

………..and one more question:)
I really guys appreciate your effort to help to people here and created the presets for A1 from this forum. Especially I like the VIVIDRGB from Steven! It is a great film looking preset and I would like to know if it could be used also inside (tungsten light) or under what conditions it works best……………doe’s exist a good preset for low light so I would not have to crank the gain much?
THX!
Hi! :-) Zkousim ted nejake CUSTOM PRESETS na XH-A1. Jak budu neco blizsiho vedet, ozvu se Ti. Je to nadherna kamera a urcite jsi udelal dobre, zes ji koupil. Mas pravdu, ze pro Bryce Canyon to musi byt extra parada. Mam to natocene na DV a na HDV by to bylo unikatni.
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