60i or 30f at DVinfo.net

Mike Gorski · June 16th, 2007, 08:41 PM

Hi I'm a proud new owner of the A1 and I've been looking through past threads and really can't find anything regarding on suggestions between 60i and 30f. 90% of what I shoot will be high motion such as longboarding, sport cars and so on. I'm going for the fast action look, clear and vivid. Should I go with 60i and de-interlace in post or shoot 30f? What I'm trying to get at is, what will yield smoother and crisp video? I really like the look of progressive video, I guess I'll have to shoot and find out a bit. Thanks for taking the time to read this!

Devon Lyon · June 16th, 2007, 10:07 PM

Mike:

We recently shot a skateboard video and shot footage in both 60i and 30F. I know there are a lot of detractors in regards to 30f, but we really like it. We could certainly detect interlacing issues on some of the super fast boarding moves in 60i, but didn't see it in 30f. Plus, we feel that the 30f (when you have NO intention of ever going to film) is a super nice in-between the 24f look (which sometimes is strobic if you don't strictly adhere to certain rules) and the ultra-crisp video look of 60i. We just like the in-between balance.

Plus, I shoot a lot of our TV spots in 30f and think it just looks great - and it is easy to go interlace for NTSC BetaSP dubs from the 30f footage.

Mike Gorski · June 16th, 2007, 11:35 PM

Devon thanks for the reply its very helpful! I appreciate the quick response.

Doug Davis · June 17th, 2007, 01:16 PM

I have heard that 60i is best for going to film? I was curious why that is...?

Doug Davis · June 17th, 2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devon Lyon

Mike:

We recently shot a skateboard video and shot footage in both 60i and 30F.

Did you guys try any slo motion stuff? Which would be better for high action slow motion? (in your opinion)

Samuel Miller · June 18th, 2007, 07:15 AM

Personally, when I slow something down, I think it looks better in 60i. I feel like the frame blending is more forgiving. The more frames per second, the more detailed the image quality in slowmo will be. For example, if we were lucky enough to have the option to shoot 120fps, you could "slow down/readjust" the clip to play at 30fps and not actually be force creating frames of an image that you didn't actually shoot. Example: shoot 1 second at 120fps. You could slow it down to 4 seconds and still maintain 30fps, with EACH frame having it's own unique image.

Now, that doesn't answer your question at all, and it only makes me jealous of real film. However, I find that it helps my when I'm trying to gauge when and if I should use slowmo.

From my explanation, it kinda sounds like think 60i is a better choice, even though these isn't true 60fps. The fact that it's 60 INTERLACED frames doesn't allow it to fit into my above example. Still however, when I slow video down--and I have with a different plugins and software, I always am more pleased with the way 60i looks.

It also always depends on the footage and how much you're slowing something down, and most importantly I think, how it will be featured in a video when it's juxtaposed with standard clips running at a smooth 60i or 30f. Honestly, I think experimentation would be your best bet.

Richard Hunter · June 18th, 2007, 07:31 AM

60i is better for slowmo because you have more samples per second to work with. Each sample has less vertical resolution so you don't get something for nothing, but the results are much smoother slomo with a slight downside of a softer image.

Richard

Doug Davis · June 18th, 2007, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Hunter

60i is better for slowmo because you have more samples per second to work with. Each sample has less vertical resolution so you don't get something for nothing, but the results are much smoother slomo with a slight downside of a softer image.

Richard

Ahhh, That makes since... I was kind of thinking that since your resolution was getting cut in half that, depending on the NLE, it would be only taking an upper or lower field converting it to a full frame and then generating intermediate frames... But the more samples per second seems to make logical sense...

Thanks guys, much appreciated...

Mike Gorski · June 18th, 2007, 07:11 PM

I have another question for those who use 30f and 24f, when you use higher shutter speeds above 1/48th and 1/60th do you get bad strobbing. I remember somewhere that someone mentioned this. I'm only asking b/c I generally shoot in brightly lit conditions so I like to use high shutter speeds with the Iris mid range to keep the image sharp. Any imput on the negative impacts of using a high shutter speed with 30f and 24f? I would assume a bigger one with 24f. Thanks again for all the responses its much appreciated.

Richard Hunter · June 19th, 2007, 04:03 AM

Hi Mike. The problem with using the shutter speed to control exposure is that different speeds give a different "feel" to the footage because of the way the motion is captured. If this changes from shot to shot it is not going to gel very well when edited together.

Unless you are trying to create a particular effect, it is best to set the shutter speed and then adjust everything else (iris, ND, lights etc) to control the exposure.

There's a few threads on this subject, so you can find more details (and many opinions) if you search.

As for strobing, this will happen more with higher shutter speeds. Normally you would use 1/60s for 30F or 60i, and 1/48s for 24F which give reasonable results in most cases. Slower speeds bring more motion blur.

Richard

June 16th, 2007, 08:41 PM	#1
Mike Gorski Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA Posts: 163	60i or 30f Hi I'm a proud new owner of the A1 and I've been looking through past threads and really can't find anything regarding on suggestions between 60i and 30f. 90% of what I shoot will be high motion such as longboarding, sport cars and so on. I'm going for the fast action look, clear and vivid. Should I go with 60i and de-interlace in post or shoot 30f? What I'm trying to get at is, what will yield smoother and crisp video? I really like the look of progressive video, I guess I'll have to shoot and find out a bit. Thanks for taking the time to read this!

June 16th, 2007, 10:07 PM	#2
Devon Lyon Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 213	Mike: We recently shot a skateboard video and shot footage in both 60i and 30F. I know there are a lot of detractors in regards to 30f, but we really like it. We could certainly detect interlacing issues on some of the super fast boarding moves in 60i, but didn't see it in 30f. Plus, we feel that the 30f (when you have NO intention of ever going to film) is a super nice in-between the 24f look (which sometimes is strobic if you don't strictly adhere to certain rules) and the ultra-crisp video look of 60i. We just like the in-between balance. Plus, I shoot a lot of our TV spots in 30f and think it just looks great - and it is easy to go interlace for NTSC BetaSP dubs from the 30f footage. __________________ Lyon Films www.LyonFilms.com;

June 16th, 2007, 11:35 PM	#3
Mike Gorski Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA Posts: 163	Devon thanks for the reply its very helpful! I appreciate the quick response.

June 17th, 2007, 01:16 PM	#4
Doug Davis Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Birmingham Alabama Posts: 259	I have heard that 60i is best for going to film? I was curious why that is...?

June 18th, 2007, 07:15 AM	#6
Samuel Miller New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lafayette LA Posts: 11	Personally, when I slow something down, I think it looks better in 60i. I feel like the frame blending is more forgiving. The more frames per second, the more detailed the image quality in slowmo will be. For example, if we were lucky enough to have the option to shoot 120fps, you could "slow down/readjust" the clip to play at 30fps and not actually be force creating frames of an image that you didn't actually shoot. Example: shoot 1 second at 120fps. You could slow it down to 4 seconds and still maintain 30fps, with EACH frame having it's own unique image. Now, that doesn't answer your question at all, and it only makes me jealous of real film. However, I find that it helps my when I'm trying to gauge when and if I should use slowmo. From my explanation, it kinda sounds like think 60i is a better choice, even though these isn't true 60fps. The fact that it's 60 INTERLACED frames doesn't allow it to fit into my above example. Still however, when I slow video down--and I have with a different plugins and software, I always am more pleased with the way 60i looks. It also always depends on the footage and how much you're slowing something down, and most importantly I think, how it will be featured in a video when it's juxtaposed with standard clips running at a smooth 60i or 30f. Honestly, I think experimentation would be your best bet.

June 18th, 2007, 07:31 AM	#7
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	60i is better for slowmo because you have more samples per second to work with. Each sample has less vertical resolution so you don't get something for nothing, but the results are much smoother slomo with a slight downside of a softer image. Richard

June 18th, 2007, 07:11 PM	#9
Mike Gorski Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA Posts: 163	I have another question for those who use 30f and 24f, when you use higher shutter speeds above 1/48th and 1/60th do you get bad strobbing. I remember somewhere that someone mentioned this. I'm only asking b/c I generally shoot in brightly lit conditions so I like to use high shutter speeds with the Iris mid range to keep the image sharp. Any imput on the negative impacts of using a high shutter speed with 30f and 24f? I would assume a bigger one with 24f. Thanks again for all the responses its much appreciated.

June 19th, 2007, 04:03 AM	#10
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	Hi Mike. The problem with using the shutter speed to control exposure is that different speeds give a different "feel" to the footage because of the way the motion is captured. If this changes from shot to shot it is not going to gel very well when edited together. Unless you are trying to create a particular effect, it is best to set the shutter speed and then adjust everything else (iris, ND, lights etc) to control the exposure. There's a few threads on this subject, so you can find more details (and many opinions) if you search. As for strobing, this will happen more with higher shutter speeds. Normally you would use 1/60s for 30F or 60i, and 1/48s for 24F which give reasonable results in most cases. Slower speeds bring more motion blur. Richard