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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old July 21st, 2007, 12:27 PM   #1
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Shooting Prof.Live Music Video.. Settings HELP!

I am in charge of making a Music Video for a Professional group in a Live atmosphere.. 45 min rock concert.

The final product is meant for band production EPK kit and nationwide Music Video DVD distribution for the release of a new album. There is a set/lighting show for the production. To give you an idea.. the budget for lighting alone has exceeded the budget for filming. It's a big event and I only have this shot to make it look as good as possible.

Here is what we are doing:

5 camera shoot -
(so far I have 3 XH-A1 of my own, and were planning on renting the other two, or renting the XL version.. or 5 of something else entirely)
one 15ft. Jib
A Steadicam Operator
A roaming (handheld)
and two lock-down (tripod) shots

My concern is the cameras.. are these the right cameras for the job? WE ARE NOT CUTTING LIVE.. NO LIVE EDIT, So that is a tremendous benefit! But we are planning on having a director (probably me) oversee the shots. Obviously I want this to look as professional as possible.

Questions.. IF these are not the right cameras then which Cameras and why?
If we DO use these cameras what are your recommendations on presets?
I am currently using the Terra pre-set for most stuff.
Lastly I really like the look of 24P, however I don't know what is the norm on these type of shots.. 60i?

There seem to be some famous people in this production.. So I really want to do an excellent job.
:) Thank you for your help!
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Old July 21st, 2007, 01:05 PM   #2
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the biggest issues a see with such camera , is that it gives a great picture at the cost of many manual setting and a controlled situation.
live shooting of such event usually do not give you the chance to operate this way.
i think a Sony in full auto would be probably easier, since music bands are usually a nightmare for light huge change in intensity and color expected).
whatever camera you choose, make sure all camera start together and no pause or stop occurs until the end of the show, this will be a huge asset to edit.
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Old July 21st, 2007, 01:16 PM   #3
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Thank you.. I agree with the operations per camera issue.. That has been on my mind. I was considering leaving the cameras in Manual and fixing a general exposure for the atmosphere on each, instead of using an auto mode.
Lighting is an issue but if generally it looks good and there are no blow-outs etc. I would be happy with it.

Timecode is an issue, but we are not capturing the audio, that is going into another Live recording system. I was thinking of getting two of the G1's or XL-H1's because of the Timecode/Genlock features; having at least two cameras locked into a timecode.
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Old July 21st, 2007, 01:51 PM   #4
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Just leave all the time code to free run. that way , when the camera goes off or when one is down for a while or when the tape suddenly breaks. You still get all the camera's time code in sync.

Just make sure you set all the cameras together.
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Old July 21st, 2007, 03:10 PM   #5
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I would absolutely not use auto exposure. Lights flash off and on, lights get in the shot, you don't want the aperture opening and closing on you all the time. The cameras in question are fine. I've shot a lot of music venues with the XH A1 and also XL2's. But you have to have people shooting who are professional and have been checkout on the cameras; otherwise you're asking for trouble.
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Old July 21st, 2007, 04:49 PM   #6
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I agree with you Bill! All the way!

Giroud, I find that free run syncing between cameras can get easily out of sync for some reason.. any solutions for this or why this would be happening?
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Old July 21st, 2007, 05:21 PM   #7
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when i need to edit a multi camera shoot, i do not use timecode.
if all the cameras start more or less at same time, i just choose an event (visual or sound) to sync all video. if no stop or pause occurs, you can bet that there will be no problem until the end of the take.
time code editing is usefull for discontinuous event that needs to be identified on each tape, but the show from the group is a continuous one, so you will probably no need to skip part of it, just switch cameras.
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Old July 21st, 2007, 06:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroud Francois View Post
when i need to edit a multi camera shoot, i do not use timecode.
if all the cameras start more or less at same time, i just choose an event (visual or sound) to sync all video. if no stop or pause occurs, you can bet that there will be no problem until the end of the take.
time code editing is usefull for discontinuous event that needs to be identified on each tape, but the show from the group is a continuous one, so you will probably no need to skip part of it, just switch cameras.
I shoot live bands all the time and use anywhere from 2-4 camera's. We use the Sony HDR-FX1's and/or Z1's.

#1) Sync'ing is not a problem provided that all cameras go live within a few seconds of each other and none get turned off during the entire performance. That gives you a full 63 minutes of the show to record. Lining this up in the NLE can take a little bit of time but it's not really that bad and you'll be surprised how good the results you can achieve by just visually lining everything up. Be sure to be using a NLE that has a good multicap app either built in or via a plugin. I use Vegas and the InfiniCam plugin, works awsome.

#2) Your camera's are plenty good and you should not shoot on full auto. You most certainly will want to at least set a white balance on each camera by being on stage under "normal" lighting conditions prior to the event. Yes, lighting could be a problem, but getting them all on the same page and the camera's agreeing what's white most of the time will do the trick. I agree with the other comment that you'll probably want to fix shutter speed, gain and exposure as well. I would let the majority of the cameras auto-focus though.

#3) I would probably recomend against 24p but this is entirely subject to your point of view. You said the final product is on DVD and provided you record into a progressive scan DVD, that should be alright.

#4) 5 camera's sounds fantastic. I would try to make one a still stage-wide type shot that you can always cut back to. Make two others cameraman operated from left and right angle's on tripods. The other on your jib or crane, and the last camera a free roaming cameraman particularly getting shots from either behind the stage or extreme left and right sides. Also have this guy getting lots of close ups of guitar strings being strung, piano keys and hands, drum sticks hitting drums, etc.

I think you are going to find this to be easier than you think and will come out really good.

Hope I am of some help..

Jon
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Old July 21st, 2007, 06:07 PM   #9
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Michael,

Tried to email you via the system but it wouldn't let me... When/Where is your event? I see you are not far from me. I also own/operate a Canon A1 and might be of some help to your production..

Jon
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Old July 21st, 2007, 07:05 PM   #10
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for the sync issues - we film a sort of live late night show in a studio with 3 cams directly to tape. sound being recorded to an edirol r4.

what we do is, as we have the sound from the built in mic on the tapes, produce a series of loud claps or something (in your case a drum snare or something) right before the actual event starts. i align all three videos into premiere so that the claps match and i'm done for the entire show. extremly easy and cheap. the only thing, as mentioned: do NEVER stop recording on one of your cams during the shot.
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Old July 21st, 2007, 07:55 PM   #11
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the a1 is great under stage lights in 24f. just go on manual all the way.
stay away from presets. you may want to hit a club and make your own before the show to get the look you want across all cams. i found that the presets offered here, under certain conditions, bleed - blowout- or cause grain. shooting flat with a decent white balance and color temp would be the safest way to go for a clean image. presets can save some time if you are confident enough with it.

for sync with other cams i use a camera flash when the house lights go dark..usually right before the band comes on and in between songs.
it's one frame and syncs nice.

if you need to match up an external audio source, vegas is the best for
matching up audio visually. you can take your cam audio and drop in the finished audio master and actually see the signature on the levels match perfectly. vegas, by design, was an audio app. from sonic foundry.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 05:32 AM   #12
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hey nice idea with the flash - gonna try that one next time we film with multiple cams :)
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 09:17 AM   #13
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I've upped a short clip from a club in Cancun that I shot last week.
Manual HDV downconverted to SD, 24F, no preset, warm color temp, multiple shutter speeds, just stage lights, buzzed on mojitos, slight post saturation.
Attached Files
File Type: wmv club24f.wmv (1.88 MB, 353 views)
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 11:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Weiss View Post
I've upped a short clip from a club in Cancun that I shot last week.
Manual HDV downconverted to SD, 24F, no preset, warm color temp, multiple shutter speeds, just stage lights, buzzed on mojitos, slight post saturation.
Hi Eric

How many cams? and which club in Cancun? In the hotel zone i'd imagine.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 12:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Weiss View Post
I've upped a short clip from a club in Cancun that I shot last week.
Manual HDV downconverted to SD, 24F, no preset, warm color temp, multiple shutter speeds, just stage lights, buzzed on mojitos, slight post saturation.
Thanks that give me a nice idea of what i'll be looking at.. brings a bit of confidence to the cameras capturing with no preset.
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