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Old December 10th, 2007, 08:49 PM   #1
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Shooting Basketball (Re:3x lens)

Hey guy's I would like your opinion here.
I will be shooting some basketball games over the winter and was wondering what you guy's think about the 3x lens for this application.

Currently, I have the 20x lens and I am forced to shoot from a corner. This causes several focus issues for me as I have a lot of depth. However, the school I will be at the most has a new gym with grat lighting and a balcony that wraps the entire court. This balcony gives me any angle I could ask for, from the corner, behind a goal and even midcourt.

The balcony is about 15' above the playing surface and about 25' off the closest sideline boundary. (20x lens is not a choice unless I want a ton of panning) With the wid eangle 3x lens, I was wondering if the panning would be minimized and does this sound like a reasonable setup?

If all else fails I can shoot from the corners.

Your thoughts?
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Old December 10th, 2007, 09:46 PM   #2
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I, too, am shooting basketball games this winter. I am using the standard lens on my DVC30. I have found that the panning back and forth isn't that much of a pain. What is the purpose of this video? If it is for the team reviewing their games, a tighter shot of the action might be preferable. I tend to keep the whole group of people in the frame, which means less than half the court in frame from the mid-court line. Being at the mid-court line also gives equivalent views of both sides (your team's offense and defense.) If you would be at the end or corner, when the team is at the other end it might be harder to see them unless you zoom in. I am happy with standing at mid-court and zooming and panning. But I suggest you experiment during practices.
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Old December 10th, 2007, 11:15 PM   #3
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Hi Guy,

Owning the 3x lens has been an invaluable thing for us. It was a bit pricey for us initially, but our investment has paid off.

With that in mind, I'd also like to know what purpose you are shooting for? If it is for reviewing games, then the 3x might be a good addition; as you will be able to get most, if not all of the half court and the players. And I guess if you're high enough, the full court!

But if it's just for a b-ball/sports/news/etc. montage, then I don't think you "need" the 3x yet.

Like Edward suggests, practice that fade away jumper :)

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Old December 11th, 2007, 08:55 AM   #4
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Hi Guy,

I've found my 3X lens is great when filming in my home, especially in standard size rooms. However, if you budget is tight, you might want to consider buying a 72mm Red Eye FX Aspheric .7x or .5x lens.

http://www.vfgadgets.com/RedEye.htm

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=81639

Of course if money's not an object, by all means go with the 3X lens (less glass equals more/better light)

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=84251

But if you're really serious about sports videos, by all means get the Canon 16X manual lens:

http://dvinfo.net/canonxl2/articles/...04.php#c16xman

Regards, Michael
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Old December 11th, 2007, 12:45 PM   #5
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Thanks for all the responses.

Currently all I have in the 20x lens and tonight will be the first game I do for this school. The purpose of the taping is unique.

1) I am new to this and want to learn it for future experience. (I am doing for free)
2) The Home team will use it for teaching purposes.
3) Some of the individual players are looking to move to the next step therefore a good video to send out to potential colleges will be good.

I believe that I need to be at midcourt and pan. I hope that I can capture most of the action between the end line and about 30 feet out.

The cost really is not an issue at this point. I have sold a ton of items on eBay in order to buy the camera and now some accessories. Just reading about the 3x lens it seems like an excellent purchase. (I wish I had it today)

I figured I would try the sports preset that is on this site and hope to give some samples for other readers like me that need a little direction.

What do you think 24p, 30p or 60i. I am not familiar with the look of each.

The Lighting in this gym is fantastic!! It is a brand new facility.
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Old December 11th, 2007, 12:47 PM   #6
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BTW - What are the advantages of the 16x lens? if money is not an object? :-)
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Old December 11th, 2007, 01:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Godwin View Post
What do you think 24p, 30p or 60i. I am not familiar with the look of each.
Since you have the camera in hand, you are in the best position to just go ahead and find out for yourself. Record some test video using each frame rate and review the results carefully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Godwin View Post
BTW - What are the advantages of the 16x lens?
See http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article82.php

Written during the XL1 era but applies to the XL2 and XL H1.
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Old December 11th, 2007, 02:42 PM   #8
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i also have a basketball team this season. sit center court, top row. have about 1/3 of the court in the viewfinder. shoot in manual, do not zoom in or out at all, just pan. the coach wants to see what his team is doing.
using the sony hc7. small portability no weight, nothing to carry around.

main reason to go "smaller" but hd was, sitting on the bleachers, and to many people running around.

make shure you have some nice rubber shoes on your tripod and i use a sandbag for stabilisation.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 01:06 PM   #9
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OK lets be honest here....
My basketball shoot was a flop. However, I did hit on a couple setting's that were much better than the others. I knew this would be the case going in. This was all part of the plan and the reason I am doing it for free.

1) Sports preset.
My only complaint about this setting was the red/orange. Everything from the rims to Ms. Smith's red sweater in row 13 all looked to be powered with it's own battery pack.

Question: Which preset controls this? I assume the red and by pulling this back to ZERO will that clear that up? (currently it is set to

2) 20x Actually the lens did better than I thought it would. I really did not need to change the zoom at all. I could get well over 1/3 of the court with minimal panning. ( I did lose a couple 3 point shots from the deep bottom corner.

3) Shutter speed vs Frame rate.
After last night, I am not confused on this setting's and not sure when to use the different level. I need to learn the "cause" and "effect" of each change.

Question: What does the red light in the view finder mean?

Back to the preset

While I was loading it onto the camera I noticed a comment in the Description. (Sports: Shoot16:9 / 30p, Tv mode 1/500th, -3db Gain)

Is this a recommended setting for using this preset?
As the game proceeded into the late 3rd quarter, I figured I had better try several different setting's. I proceeded to make several changes on the camera as I was shooting.

However, most of this was done in record mode not pause. After watching the game with the data displayed on my TV I noticed that I did not see as many changes as I performed. This morning I read in my manual that most setting's will not take effect unitl the camera has been paused. ( I had NO idea) I thought I was changing on the fly.

Question: When I play back the tape with the camera data displayed will it tell me Tv or Av or just show the aperature, shutter and Frame rate?

Question: When there is NO frame rate displayed does that mean 60i?

I will be posting some video for you guy's to see and give pointers on later.

I must go and deliver a copy to the coach.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 09:13 PM   #10
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Guy, I've shot several sporting events and some basketball as well. As you probably found out yesterday, the 3XXL is pretty useless there, and the 20 X is a great lens for it. I usually placed myself high up in the stands and followed the action from there, never getting more than a third of the court at a time, and sometimes shooting in CU to some sort of action.
It's real difficult using the tiny viewfinder on the XL2, and you'll find the footage looks better on review that thru the VF. Don't be afraid to use the zoom, and you've gotta be using a tripod.
A tip: I always positioned myself opposite the bench, which played into getting great footage of the coach during timeouts, or as cutaways during action.

There are two red lights (LED's) and one orange in the viewfinder... the left red light says the shutter is set to manual, the middle red tells you that you are recording, and the right (orange) says you're gain is set to "other than zero".
Your questions imply that you're not looking at all the display options available. Just below the carrying handle on the top of the camera, there are five buttons. One of them is labelled "EVF Display". Pressing that button a couple times will toggle several different display modes some of which will tell you this info in the viewfinder. This will answer your question as to frame rate, recording, audio levels, etc. ....

Unless you are shooting completely automatic, the frame rate is what you set it to be. You set it on the camera and will see that in the viewfinder. If you don't see it, you can simply toggle the EVF Display button until it shows.

Probably the best recommendations I can give are to break out the camera and spend hours and hours with it, futzing with the different buttons and switches seeing what they can do. While doing that I'd recommend having the Canon manual alongside you, explaining what they are supposed to do.
Most of the buttons are pretty simple, but some of them, like the custom presets can be confusing. Don't let those stop you. Practice with the simple ones first and see how they relate (don't forget the one's on the lenses too..) to your final product, and learn from there.

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Old December 12th, 2007, 09:28 PM   #11
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Bill one item that i think I confirmed tonight.

When recording in 60i. My view finder does not list anything. However, if I switch to ether 30 or 24p then I get that on the display.

One problem I have had is that I am not documenting each setting in reference to the recording time. (or another benchmark) I have just been winging it..

Tonight I shot some more hoops. But it was youth (8yrs old) from floor level. I have read that people say to shoot sports in something other than 60i. Quite frankly my 60i shots seem to be the absolute best footage.

does anyone have any thoughts on this?

One last question. What is the difference in frame rate and shutter speed?
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Old December 12th, 2007, 09:40 PM   #12
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Frame rate is how many frames per second is captured. Shutter speed is how fast the shutter opens and closes. A faster shutter will yield less motion blur, but too fast will give choppy motion.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 11:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Carlson View Post
Shutter speed is how fast the shutter opens and closes. A faster shutter will yield less motion blur, but too fast will give choppy motion.
The motion blurr and choppy is what I was looking for. How about frame rate? what is the effect of this?
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Old December 13th, 2007, 11:10 PM   #14
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Clip now attached

OK - Here is my better looks. I need to run the tape back so that I can get the setting's and post them here. I know two thing's this was with 60i and I used the sports preset that is on this site.

the reds and orange are a little...Hm.hmm Neon I guess.

I suggest downloading the 93MB file before trying to run it. If you try and run it from here I expect it to not work very well.

http://visualboxscore.com/boxscores/..._DVI_cuts2.avi

Let me know what you see.
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Old December 13th, 2007, 11:54 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Guy Godwin View Post
How about frame rate? what is the effect of this?
The frame rate is the number of pictures taken per second. Higher frame rates render motion more smoothly than slower ones.

60i looks like home video--motion is very smooth. 24p looks more like a movie. 30p is somewhere in between.

As always, the best way to see how these things work is to try them for yourself. Switch to 60i and pan across the room--smooth as butter, but maybe a little too "uncle charlie's camcorder"-looking. Switch to 24p @ 1/48 shutter and do the same pan--more "cinematic." Switch to 24p at 1/320 (you'll need to open the iris, turn up the gain, or add light)--very choppy. You'll begin to get the picture--literally.
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