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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
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Old November 14th, 2007, 09:49 PM   #226
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Daniel, coming in a little late on this so maybe you have it figured by now? Do you have any footage? What you're refering to could be a host of things. Whatever it is, I'm sure it's correctable by properly setting up the camera. Was the camera on AUTO or MANUAL or some thing else? More details, please.
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Old November 15th, 2007, 06:40 AM   #227
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Thanks Eric for replying.

I did not figured it out yet.

I should have thought of providing more information as how my camera was setted up.

I will be filming once again in an arena on the week-end and I am trying to resolve this problem as soon as possible.

- The lens was set to manual focus.
- The white balance was set to 2 (impossible to set a white balance as there is too much difference from one end to another).
- I am filming figure skating which moves very quickly and I am using AV.
- I am not touching the iris button, it is setup to 2.something
- The Gaindb is set to 0
- The AE shift is set to 0

Are there any other information that I need to mention that would help ?

Thanks for helping !

Daniel
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Old November 15th, 2007, 07:29 AM   #228
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Daniel,

Use the indoor auto white balance if you can't set it up manually. Auto white balance 1 & 2 are custom presets and unless you set them for white balance the camera had no idea what the white balance was and you did not allow it to find out for itself.

The XL2 is a wonderful camera, enjoy.
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Old November 15th, 2007, 07:31 AM   #229
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I do not understand what you mean by "I will be able to see in wave a redish and a white color on the camera."

What shutter speed are you using?
What kind of lighting is it?
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Old November 15th, 2007, 08:29 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Paquin View Post
Thanks Eric for replying.

- I am filming figure skating which moves very quickly and I am using AV.

Hi Daniel. it sounds to me like the shutter speed is too low, probably because you are using Av mode and have no control over it.

I suggest you do not use Av mode. Try Tv instead, and set the shutter to 1/60s. Use 60i mode or possibly 30p since it is for action shots (this is my opinion - others might suggest 24p but I recommend you only try that after fixing this problem).

Turn on the zebra stripes (set to 100% or slightly less) and adjust the iris until only the lights themselves show the stripes. If the subject is too dark you might need to open the iris further at the expense of overexposing the lights. Not ideal, but not much choice when you have lights in the shot.

Try this, and compare the results with what you got in Av mode.

Richard
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Old November 15th, 2007, 08:41 AM   #231
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I believe you are missing the points guys. See below:

I was filming within an arena whre the light are, unfortunately, not all the same. It easy to see with our own eyes. When you look at the light you will see that they are either red or white. The heat generated by those lights are then different and are visible by the lens.

For exemple, in filming a subject without moving/panning the camera I will be able to see in wave a redish and a white color on the camera.


- The white balance was set to 2 (impossible to set a white balance as there is too much difference from one end to another).

He was not moving the camera, the lights changed, he was using custom preset #2 white balance, not set! The camera had no white balance.

At least that is the biggest problem I see.

M
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Old November 15th, 2007, 11:15 AM   #232
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Thank you very much for taking the time in trying to help me out.

I've tried all of the different white balancing combination (i.e A, 1,2,3...) and did not see a difference.

I'll try to explain it better. As an example, the skater is setting up at the beginning of his presentation and is not moving. I am then not moving/panning the camera. If the skater stays at the same place for a while there will be enough time for me to see the background color changing.

From white, to yellow, to red back to white, yellow and red.....

I record this event on a DVD recorder. When I get to fast forward the DVD you can see the background changing very fast, it's like waves. Starts from the top to the bottom, back to the top to the bottom.

What I could do over the week-end would be to put this on a tape. Is there a place where I could post these images for you to see.

Thanks again !

Daniel
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Old November 15th, 2007, 03:04 PM   #233
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Daniel,

Well, you have me confused! Have you down loaded the footage to your computer and looked at it, or have you just looked at the viewfinder while you are shooting?

Have you tried just putting the camera in full auto and see if it is still there?

Mike
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Old November 15th, 2007, 03:11 PM   #234
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Daniel,

Also, don't be afraid to use auto mode until you learn more about the camera. I know a lot of people who light and setup shots the best they can and then just use auto. The footage will be better than what you will get if you know nothing about how to properly setup the camera. No offense, but it does not sound like you have had it long or know much about how to set it up.

The Canon XL2 is one of the most adjustable or programmable cameras made, it just take a while to figure it all out. Lots of information on this site to help you though.

Mike

P.S.: If it still does it on auto, you may have a bad camera that needs service.

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Old November 15th, 2007, 03:14 PM   #235
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F.A.Q. Some light sources change faster than the eye sees, but not faster than the camera. If you're lucky, 1/48 or 1/60 will be slow enough to combine enough of the changes so it will appear consistent.
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Old November 15th, 2007, 04:15 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Paquin View Post
I'll try to explain it better. As an example, the skater is setting up at the beginning of his presentation and is not moving. I am then not moving/panning the camera. If the skater stays at the same place for a while there will be enough time for me to see the background color changing.

From white, to yellow, to red back to white, yellow and red.....
Hi Daniel. My previous advice about smearing was obviously aimed at fixing the wrong problem, but actually I believe it will also be a solution for this one. Fast shutter speeds with certain indoor lighting will result in colour shifts and this might be what you are seeing. In order to control the shutter speed, use Tv mode rather than Av. There are several threads already on this subject, so you could also try a search for more advice.

Richard
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Old November 15th, 2007, 04:20 PM   #237
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Thanks again everybody !

I have been filming those events for many years using AV with a xL1 and a GL2 and had nor problems.

My setup is the following.

- The camera is connected to a DVD recorder (Pioneer DVR-633H) via the Firewire connection.
- I record directly onto the hard disk of the DVD recorder.
- I preview the information that have just been recorded onto a 13" TV monitor connected to the DVD recorder.
- I do not need to preview to see the background color changing, I see it right on the fly throught the monitor.

Mike, excuse me if I confused you with my last message. I have to say that you had it right in understanding what I am doing.

I am not sure if I should be using some kind of filter.
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Old November 15th, 2007, 04:58 PM   #238
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Daniel,

Best of luck on this. I would try what Richard and the other Daniel said, vary the shutter speed, hopefully it goes way. With that mixture of light it could affect it.

What settings did you use on your XL1 and were you recording it to the DVD recorder and monitoring it the same way?

Are you observing the same effect in the cameras viewfinder that you are on the monitor? Could there be some electrical interference between the camera and the monitor and the DVD recorder? How long are the cables?

Mike
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Old November 15th, 2007, 05:36 PM   #239
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I am using on the XL2 the same setting than the XL1s.

Yes I am recording it to the DVD recorder and monitoring it the same way.

I did not look at the viewfinder, I will do on the week-end.

There should not be any electrical interference between the camera, the monitor and the DVD recorder.

The DV cables are 10 feet long.

As suggested, I will be trying different setup on the week-end. I will let you know on next Monday.

Regards everybody !

Daniel
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Old November 23rd, 2007, 10:24 AM   #240
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Hello Daniel,

The problem you are getting comes mainly from those damn sodium bulbs (or similar types of cheap lighting) used in most of our indoor arenas (I'm talking about the province of Quebec here, dunno how it is elsewhere, but photographs and videomakers like me gotta deal with that kind of crap all the time). :-)

If I say something wrong here please correct me, but I'm pretty sure these explanations can help you understand and correct your problem.

Sodium lighting is pretty darn hard to work with photo and video mostly because when a bulb's near dying, it doesn't emit the same lighting color, unlike professionnal lighting which gives a constant lighting color. At their life's beginning, they emit a bright yellowish tungsten-like light (about 3200-3500k), and the further they age, the nearer they get to the redish light (about 2000-2500k). That's why you see whites and yellows and reds all over the place through your cam : some bulbs are about to die while others are at half their lifespan or even new-ish. The flicker you're experiencing comes from the cam's color temperature trying to determine the right hue when you're in auto white balance.

Now, what can you do to correct this? Not much unfortunately, as the shooting environment doesn't give you much play in this situation. If you're a friend of the manager of the arena, try asking him to change all the dying bulbs for new ones, but good luck with that! :-)

Seriously though, the only way I found to correct this was to do it in post. Best way would be to shoot with a fixed white balance, and try to determine some kind of average WB in the arena you're shooting that would look ok. Most bulbs seem about to die? WB according to these bulbs. Most seem new? WB according to them instead. I did that a lot when I was shooting still photos with my Nikon D200, and had to correct all red hues in post before printing them. With video though, it might get harder, especially if you're recording directly on DVD, because then there's compression, and if you give the DVD straight away then there's no way for you to correct the colors in post.

So, my advice? Well, Richard's solution is the first step, but it won't correct entirely the problem. What you need to do is, since some indoor arenas have better and newer lighting types, so you could try to schedule your shoots in these rather than older ones where the lighting is crappy. You evidently gotta shoot some tests first, but hey, if your clients are satisfied after that, it might be worth your time investigating this! Then you can either correct the lighting in post-prod (with gradients and such), and start charging a bit more, or warn your clients that there's nothing you can do about the colors since it comes from the light sources up the roof (being honest often helps, especially if the problem's not your fault). :-)

Hope this helps!

--Gabe
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