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-   -   Batteries for XL2 (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl-gl-series-dv-camcorders/28915-batteries-xl2.html)

Pete Constable July 13th, 2004 06:02 PM

Batteries for XL2
 
Are the bateries the same as XL1, ie backwards & forwards compatable. Is it possible to stream Analogue thru camera to another DV device, instead of digitising to DV tape in camera first. Well done Chris & Simon. Cheers PC

Jeff Donald July 13th, 2004 06:46 PM

From the photos posted it appears it still uses the same series of Canon batteries as the XL1 etc.

Chris Hurd July 14th, 2004 02:00 AM

See my XL1 / XL2 items compatibility list.

See also my XL2 battery endurance chart.

Hope this helps,

Pete Constable July 14th, 2004 04:49 AM

Thanks guys.
The camera sounds good. I'll be lining up for one as the XL1s is very tired.
Cheers PC

Nick Hiltgen July 14th, 2004 11:06 AM

ta-100 and battery question
 
I was looking at the ta-100 here

http://www.xl1s.com/xl2pics/IMG_2513.jpg

and it looks like it connects via a sony vct-u14 (or something like that) plate will canon be selling the mounting plate (u14 like) as well or just the ta-100.

Does anyone know what the watthours are on the canon batteries, is that in the watchdog and I just missed it?

Thanks
Nick

Simon Beer July 14th, 2004 11:12 AM

The TA100 comes supplied with the camera part.

The XL2 comes as standard the same as the XL1S with just a thread and the tripod location pin hole.

Cheers!

Simon.

Nick Hiltgen July 14th, 2004 11:14 AM

SO I'm guessing at the bottom of the camera part there is a place to screw in a sachtler wedgeplate (or any other kind for that matter)?

Simon Beer July 14th, 2004 11:20 AM

The bottom of the camera part has a wedge which fits the TA100 which has a row of 1/4 and 3/8" threads to go on a tripod.

Cheers!

Simon.

Alex Dolgin July 14th, 2004 05:02 PM

Do you know if the integrated should pad is removable, with the threaded hole under it (like XL1S for mounting the MA100)?
Thx
Alex

Chris Hurd July 14th, 2004 06:50 PM

Alex

The integrated shoulder pad is not removeable. Not intentionally removeable anyway.

Pete Constable July 15th, 2004 03:41 AM

It won't connect to a Miller tripod as all their new pods come with a very small plate, even their big tripods. PC

Pete Constable July 15th, 2004 03:43 AM

Simon, what tripods is it compatable with?? PC

Nick Hiltgen July 15th, 2004 08:34 AM

Cool I think I mis phrased my last question, what I meant was. If I buy the ta-100 will I then have to buy a quickrelease plate, or is one included with the ta-100 bundle. Then at the bottom of the quickrelease (if it's included with the ta-100) can I then mount a sachtler (or whatever) wedgeplate to connect it to my tripod?

Yi Fong Yu July 22nd, 2004 12:28 PM

i wonder if the CH-910 dual battery holder can snap right onto the XL2 should pads?
 
i mean the MA200 ain't compatible with the XL2. do i really NEED to buy the MA300 to outfit the XL2 with CA-910 dual bat pack?

edit: nevermind, yeah it does here:

"The back of the Canon XL2 is dominated by the shoulder rest, which is now officially part of the camcorder body. Above the shoulder rest is a battery mount, which can accommodate the optional CH-910 battery charger and BP-945 batteries."

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-Review.htm

Marty Hudzik August 12th, 2004 03:00 PM

3rd Party Batteries.....whats the verdict?
 
I have been away from the Canon scene for 2 years with my DVX100. I am onboard with the XL2. What batteries and accessories do you recommend? I don't need the Anton Baur setup.....I am nore interested in Canon Official Batteries versus Lenmar, Power 1000 or whatever others are out there for less.

Are these legit or are they scams and don;t actually last very long? Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Steve Siegel August 12th, 2004 05:15 PM

Third party batteries can be first rate. I have a 5500mAh Lenmar battery that has give a year of good service so far, and an Empire one that I have used for five years. In fact, these seem to hold a charge longer than the Canon product.

Barry Goyette August 12th, 2004 06:10 PM

The lenmar batteries are as good or better than the canon batteries...at less that half the price. I've heard the same about the Power line as well.

Barry

Aaron Koolen August 12th, 2004 06:41 PM

Yes, I have had a Power2000 battery (Equiv of the BP945) for about 20 months now and it works a treat and cost me about half the price of a Canon one.

Aaron

Marty Hudzik August 25th, 2004 08:22 PM

cheapo batteries???
 
OK. So I have gathered that the Lenmar and the Power2000 are both reliable alternatives to the overpriced Canon batteries. But I see many "no-name" OEM batteries being sold as BP-945 replacements on many of these bargain battery sites. Are these total crap or great deals? Anyone tried them? 6000mah sounds pretty good!

I know the old rule says you get what you pay for. But I'd like to know if these are for real or a scam? Anyone risked the $17.95 or the $38.95 for 2 and been surprised? Or burned?

Bob Benkosky August 25th, 2004 08:38 PM

I've bought 2 945 type batteries and have had no trouble at all from them. Each cost me $34 on Ebay.

Barry Goyette August 25th, 2004 11:03 PM

Marty

This is the hard part...what bob says is probably true...so when I tell you that I bought a couple of "no-name" batteries and after the second or third charge they simply wouldn't hold a charge...they'd go through the normal charge cycle...you'd put them in the camera and 10 minutes later they we're completely discharged...this is also true. If you are able to find a cheap, no-name reliable battery then great...and let us all know. From experience, enough of us have tried the lenmar and power2000 brands to know that we can trust and recommend them, and they are a bargain compared to the canon brand. (I've since determined that the no-name batteries I bought that are collecting dust next to my charger station weren't much of a bargain at all).

Barry

Jonathan Ramsey October 11th, 2004 11:53 AM

Are there 3rd part batteries with LED?
 
Howdy,

I'm looking at the Power2000 and the Lenmar comparables to the Canon BP945, I don't see any other options that would also include an LED showing the battery charge meter? Anyone know of this?

I also need a good, fast car charger -- thoughts on if the Power2000, Lenmar, or any others would be better or worse?

Thanks,
Ramsey

Giroud Francois October 11th, 2004 02:03 PM

actually, what you are looking for is a batt. with an lcd screen that can show the charge status.
you can find some, but for this very precise model , i do not know.

Matthew Cherry October 11th, 2004 03:28 PM

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking for or not, but I recently got the Anton/Baure Dionic 90's and they have a small LCD screen which displays the battery's status.

Matt

Lauri Kettunen October 12th, 2004 10:53 AM

Canon batteries
 
Just curious to know, how long have you managed to operate with your Canon batteries?

The reason to ask is that I bought five additional BP-930 batteries 1997 when got the XL1 (which had one battery in the package). I labelled the batteries and have circulated them carefully, and if I have not used the batteries for a week, I've always run them empty and then put them into a plastic bag into a refrigerator. And still, after seven years and hundreds of filmed tapes all batteries are enough alive to power filming a 60 minute tape with the dual battery holder. (Alone the batteries run empty within 10-15 minutes.)

Now, I wonder whether storing the batteries in the refrigerator have had some real effect, and thus, it would be interesting to hear how long you've been able to operate with your Canon batteries.

(The idea to store batteries on cold came after reading about lithium batteries from a booklet published by a Canadian charger manufacturer saying Lithium batteries are like foodstuffs; Use them or not, they are ruined with time. There is no real wisdom behind the trick. It's just an intuitive thought that all chemical processes should slow down in cool conditions. Thus, neither guarantee whether storing batteries in a refrigerator has been, in fact, a dummy move!)

Marty Hudzik October 12th, 2004 03:48 PM

Forgive me if this is an ignorant question but.....if alone the batteries only last 10-15 minutes, how in the world can you shoot a 60 minute tape using the dual battery kit? I mean.....simple math says that you should only get 30 minutes out of it in the dual config. This just doesn't add up as the extra power has to come from somewhere....and the dual kit does not do any type of recharge or conditioning...

just wondering.....cause if the dual charger could actually double the effective time of a good battery......woah!

Lauri Kettunen October 13th, 2004 01:36 AM

<<<-- if alone the batteries only last 10-15 minutes, how in the world can you shoot a 60 minute tape using the dual battery kit? -->>>

It's because all batteries have a so called internal impedance/resistance. With the dual battery holder the current the camcorder takes from each battery is 50%, but as the internal power loss within the battery is porportional to the square of the current, this is what makes the difference.

In simple words, when using the batteries some power is always lost in heating them internally. Connecting batteries in parallel minimizes such losses, and as a result two batteries in parallel yield power to the camcorder (much) longer than two batteries sequentially.

Marty Hudzik October 13th, 2004 08:28 AM

Thats very interesting. It contradicts however what a Canon Rep told me directly. HE said that there is no benefit to the CH-910 other than the ability to charge 2 batteries at the same time and the ability to switch one battery when it goes dead while the other battery continues to power the XL2. I shouldn't expect double the time because 2 batteries are connected....maybe even a little less than what you would expect from 2 batteries combined....hmmm.

IT sounds like you know a little about electronics and such....I have a degree in it myself and was considering just making a rig of my own to house 2 batteries in parallel. Not because the CH-910 doesn;t work but because I don't care for the size and proportions of it.

If I rigged up 2 in parallel would it work? Or is it necessary for the electronic circuit in the CH-910 for the camera to see them as one battery?

Just theorizing. Anyone?

Dennis Hingsberg October 13th, 2004 08:59 AM

Through normal use and neglect, lithium ion type batteries have only ever lasted me about 3 years. In their 4th and 5th year they still work but lose power very quickly..

I wonder what would happen if we put 4 batteries in parallel? Would the inverse square law mean we would get 240 minutes?

;)

Lauri Kettunen October 13th, 2004 10:18 AM

<<<-- I wonder what would happen if we put 4 batteries in parallel? Would the inverse square law mean we would get 240 minutes? -->>>

No, this is not the case, for the square law is about losses. I mean, the energy available to run the camcorder is "Energy of the battery - energy losses in the battery". Now, you realize soon that when the losses get small enough, decreasing them even more have no significant effect.

Marty, Can't find easily the manual of the dual battery holder, but feel rather confident to say, I bought it because the specs says that takes power simultaneously from both batteries. Besides, that's also what the experience strongly suggets. So, wonder whether the Canon rep really knew what he was talking about.

Jonathan Ramsey October 13th, 2004 02:09 PM

Cool. Thanks much!

Ramsey

Jeff Donald October 13th, 2004 03:04 PM

I used the CH-910 extensively for 4 or 5 years and the discharge is equal to about the time of two fully charged batteries. They charge the batteries separately and discharge them separately. I have been told this by Canon reps many times of the years.

Marty Hudzik October 13th, 2004 03:08 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : I used the CH-910 extensively for 4 or 5 years and the discharge is equal to about the time of two fully charged batteries. They charge the batteries separately and discharge them separately. I have been told this by Canon reps many times of the years. -->>>

Me too! But hoping that there is some truth to the other statements made here.

Jeff Donald October 13th, 2004 04:25 PM

Not in my experience with Canon batteries and third party batteries from Lenmar. My batteries last about 5 years with no refrigeration. I try to store lithium batteries charged, but at times I forget and store them in a partial state of discharge. I never drain lithium batteries completely. I have several sources that say draining lithium batteries is not recommended.

Matthew Cherry October 13th, 2004 09:17 PM

I hate to keep plugging them, because I must seem like a shill for the company but I've shot over 8 hours on a single Anton/Bauer Dionic 90....

Matt

Lauri Kettunen October 14th, 2004 02:53 AM

Jeff, yes, I'm aware that there are many recommendations, and this is precisely why I was interested hearing your experience. In fact, contradictory recommendations are maybe due to the fact that all Li-ion are not of the same type.

About CH-910, with new batteries it's clear that the holder doubles only the shooting time of a single battery. But, once the batteries become old, the internal resistance increases, and then having two in parallel implies that the shooting time may extend that of two single batteries. And this is what my experience also seems to suggest.

Simplified example: Say, in case of single old battery, 80% of the power is wasted in heat losses inside the battery, and 20% is what is exploited by the camcorder. Connecting two in parallel means the current is halved and heat losses are 1/4 of that in case of a single battery. This implies the ratio between power used by the camcorder and the power wasted in losses improves significantly. (To say accurately what really happens is rather difficult for the internal resistance needs not to be a constant. That's why my explanation is a simplification.)

Now, the reason why Canon reps say CH-910 is just a holder running the batteries sequentially may well be their conclusion from the fact that with new batteries it just doubles the shooting time. However, the real advantage of parallel connection is likely to show up only with aged batteries.

It's a pity that companies like Canon, Sony etc. do not make such their specs clearly available. So much time and effort is wasted in speculations and guessing what they may have done. Wish this forum, and people like Chris, could convince Canon to give their users proper and accurate information of their technical solutions within their products.

Lauri Kettunen October 16th, 2004 11:50 AM

Dual Battery Holder CH-900
 
Finally found the manual, and it clearly states:

As you use the camcorder, power is taken equally from both battery packs.

So, at least we know now that not all reps are that reliable.

A. J. deLange October 17th, 2004 09:34 AM

While I buy the explanation of why paralleling is advantageous in theory if you stick a couple of numbers into it the conclusion is not so clear. The XL2 requires 7.1 watts and the batteries are 7.2 volt batteries. Current demand is thus very close to 1 amp. The internal impedance of the batteries has got to be low enough that the voltage drop across it is small. Lets say that is a volt so that the camera actually has 6.2 volts across it's terminals and must, thus draw 1.15 amps from the battery (to get 7.1 watts). This makes the battery internal impedance 1/1.15 = 0.9 Ohm and (1.1)*(1.1)*(0.9) = 1 watt is dissipated in this impedance with 7.1 being consumed by the camera. The battery is 100*7.1/6.1 = 87% efficient. Paralleling two of these batteries results in each supplying half the current but the current demand is a little less than half that required from the single battery i.e. about 0.527 amp so the dissipation in a single battery's internal impedance is (0.9)*(0.527)*(0.527) = 0.25 watt for a total dissipation of 0.5 watt and the overall efficiency is 100*7.1/7.6 = 93%. This is an improvement but not a doubling!

A.J.

Kevin Gilvear October 17th, 2004 12:52 PM

How long do batteries last on the XL2?

A. J. deLange October 17th, 2004 01:16 PM

On my recent trip to Mexico with the camera I'd mount a fully charged third party (Power2000 - got it from B&H) substitute for the BP-945 (rated 6000 mAh or twice that of the BP930) each morning. In the course of a day I'd shoot perhaps 3/4 of an hour of video and never pay a lot of attention as to whether the camera was on standby or not. At the end of the day there was plenty of juice left to rewind the tape and play it back for review. The battery was still not exhausted (indicator did not show full) but how much was left I couldn't say.

Note that while this is a 3rd party battery pack it's a good bet that if I cracked it open I'd find the same cells that Canon puts in their packs as there are a limited number of manufacturers of these.

It's interesting that the camera manual states that the 945 with it's double capacity relative to the 930 is only supposed to give 50% more recording time.

A.J.


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