Sitting on the Fence at DVinfo.net

Paul Colt · July 20th, 2004, 11:40 PM

I have three Canon cameras, two XM2's. one old Xl-1 so I'm heavily invested in Canon so I would like to wait a bit for prices to come down and for more real reviews to come out about the new XL-2. So far it sounds good, but I just hope that the Lux ratings arent' what is being presented so far ( 5.5 lux?) and also yes I would like to see a WA to bring the lens up to DVX-100 standard but that is one of the many the nice things about the XL-1 and XL-2 series that the Pany DVX-100 series cant' do is change lens, of course at great expense. I've owned a Ntsc Dvx-100 and liked it but I am an event videographer and didn't need 24p, and now I am in PAL land now so I had to sell it. So I'm sitting on the fence waiting for prices and real comparisons come out, plus saving money as well for the BIG buy! Thanks so much to DV-i community to keeping us all informed!

Jean-Philippe Archibald · July 21st, 2004, 12:07 AM

The Xl2 is in fact rated to 5.5 lux but at 1/60 shutter speed. If I remember well, the XL1 was rated 2 lux at 1/8 or 16 lux at 1/60... so the XL2 seem to be a great improvement in low light compared to the XL1. We will have to wait for real user reviews to know how it perform in real life and against other camcorders like the PD-170...

Paul Colt · July 21st, 2004, 12:26 AM

Yes Jean that what everyone is waiting for is real reviews, I've read a few like the one on the CamcorderInfo.com user review I posted. Some things dont' sound so good, some do. I'm still waiting with my money but how long I'll wait is the question.

Jay Gladwell · July 21st, 2004, 06:02 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Colt : . . . I've read a few. . . Some things dont' sound so good, some do. I'm still waiting with my money but how long I'll wait is the question. -->>>

That has been my experience ever since the XL1 was released. Someone always had something negative to say or report. I bought one anyway. I wasn't disappointed.

When the XL1s came out, same thing--more bad press and more naysayers. I bought one of those, too. Very pleased with it! All along this path I've read horror stories about what the cameras and lenses were doing or not doing. And through it all, I have never experienced one of the problems I read about. I was left with the theory that it came down to the fact that some people didn't know how to use the camera and/or lenses.

So, based on my previous positive experiences with Canon, I'm standing here with cash in my sweaty little fist ready to pounce on the first XL2 I can come September. I'm confident I won't be disappointed.

Jay

P.S. Fence sitting can be a real pain in the butt.

Joshua Cohen · July 21st, 2004, 01:39 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jay Gladwell : <<<-- Originally posted by Paul Colt : . . . I've read a few. . . Some things dont' sound so good, some do. I'm still waiting with my money but how long I'll wait is the question. -->>>

That has been my experience ever since the XL1 was released. Someone always had something negative to say or report. I bought one anyway. I wasn't disappointed.

When the XL1s came out, same thing--more bad press and more naysayers. I bought one of those, too. Very pleased with it! All along this path I've read horror stories about what the cameras and lenses were doing or not doing. And through it all, I have never experienced one of the problems I read about. I was left with the theory that it came down to the fact that some people didn't know how to use the camera and/or lenses.

So, based on my previous positive experiences with Canon, I'm standing here with cash in my sweaty little fist ready to pounce on the first XL2 I can come September. I'm confident I won't be disappointed.

Jay

P.S. Fence sitting can be a real pain in the butt. -->>>

Hey Jay, and everyone else. I'd say that I've come across my own issue, is that I forget to sometimes plug the viewfinder into the camera. Boy, has that started a few... ah.... not so pretty words. But that was my own stupidity. And to think, after owning the camera well over a year, and doing lots of shoots, I'd remember by now. Or, sometimes, my tripod as an "on/off" switch, that sometimes I leave on off. When I plug in my camera, it goes on...then off. Yea...after several layers of tape, staples (don't ask) I'm good :)

It's a good camera. No two or three ways about it. Just one. The right way.
(i'm starting to sound like a politician...)

Jay Gladwell · July 21st, 2004, 02:22 PM

Josh, you're a far better man than I.

I'd rather be boiled in oil that admit that I had made any mistakes with my camera! ;o)

Jay

Don Donatello · July 21st, 2004, 10:28 PM

IMO 5 ( 3 , 2 whatever) lux tells me nothing about the image.. so if the dvx is rated at 2 lux is that a usable image at 2 lux ? or is it just a bunch of noise ?? is that with 3, 6, 12, 18, 36 db gain ? IMO it's doesn't tell you anything about the quality of the image. some strange reference LUX ..notice they don't give any lux readings in decent light as it would be 100,000 lux at F2 ! 3 million lux at F8??? !!!
there is NO standard for these readings ..each manufacturer seems to use there own standard ..so is that 5 lux on a 18% grey card ? 90% white card ? or it is just 5 lux and i can see something on the monitor ? ...

Kevin Lepp · July 22nd, 2004, 02:44 AM

the spec sheet on canon website says its 5.5 lux at 1/60 on 60i using 4:3 aspect with their 20x lens.

And im sure that its, at the least, a decent picture.

Paul Colt · July 22nd, 2004, 05:05 AM

Yes but many sites also state the Lux rating at 3 which just as Don pointed out Lux rating does not necessarily mean a good image. I've owned a DVX-100 and its low light ability looked better then my XM2's and my old XL-1. However if the XL-2 is as good as the DVX I'm fine with it since its not that important.

July 20th, 2004, 11:40 PM	#1
Paul Colt Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 35	Sitting on the Fence I have three Canon cameras, two XM2's. one old Xl-1 so I'm heavily invested in Canon so I would like to wait a bit for prices to come down and for more real reviews to come out about the new XL-2. So far it sounds good, but I just hope that the Lux ratings arent' what is being presented so far ( 5.5 lux?) and also yes I would like to see a WA to bring the lens up to DVX-100 standard but that is one of the many the nice things about the XL-1 and XL-2 series that the Pany DVX-100 series cant' do is change lens, of course at great expense. I've owned a Ntsc Dvx-100 and liked it but I am an event videographer and didn't need 24p, and now I am in PAL land now so I had to sell it. So I'm sitting on the fence waiting for prices and real comparisons come out, plus saving money as well for the BIG buy! Thanks so much to DV-i community to keeping us all informed!

July 21st, 2004, 12:07 AM	#2
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	The Xl2 is in fact rated to 5.5 lux but at 1/60 shutter speed. If I remember well, the XL1 was rated 2 lux at 1/8 or 16 lux at 1/60... so the XL2 seem to be a great improvement in low light compared to the XL1. We will have to wait for real user reviews to know how it perform in real life and against other camcorders like the PD-170... __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

July 21st, 2004, 12:26 AM	#3
Paul Colt Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 35	the long wait Yes Jean that what everyone is waiting for is real reviews, I've read a few like the one on the CamcorderInfo.com user review I posted. Some things dont' sound so good, some do. I'm still waiting with my money but how long I'll wait is the question.

July 21st, 2004, 06:02 AM	#4
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Re: the long wait <<<-- Originally posted by Paul Colt : . . . I've read a few. . . Some things dont' sound so good, some do. I'm still waiting with my money but how long I'll wait is the question. -->>> That has been my experience ever since the XL1 was released. Someone always had something negative to say or report. I bought one anyway. I wasn't disappointed. When the XL1s came out, same thing--more bad press and more naysayers. I bought one of those, too. Very pleased with it! All along this path I've read horror stories about what the cameras and lenses were doing or not doing. And through it all, I have never experienced one of the problems I read about. I was left with the theory that it came down to the fact that some people didn't know how to use the camera and/or lenses. So, based on my previous positive experiences with Canon, I'm standing here with cash in my sweaty little fist ready to pounce on the first XL2 I can come September. I'm confident I won't be disappointed. Jay P.S. Fence sitting can be a real pain in the butt.

July 21st, 2004, 01:39 PM	#5
Joshua Cohen Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Roslyn Heights, NY Posts: 50	Re: Re: the long wait <<<-- Originally posted by Jay Gladwell : <<<-- Originally posted by Paul Colt : . . . I've read a few. . . Some things dont' sound so good, some do. I'm still waiting with my money but how long I'll wait is the question. -->>> That has been my experience ever since the XL1 was released. Someone always had something negative to say or report. I bought one anyway. I wasn't disappointed. When the XL1s came out, same thing--more bad press and more naysayers. I bought one of those, too. Very pleased with it! All along this path I've read horror stories about what the cameras and lenses were doing or not doing. And through it all, I have never experienced one of the problems I read about. I was left with the theory that it came down to the fact that some people didn't know how to use the camera and/or lenses. So, based on my previous positive experiences with Canon, I'm standing here with cash in my sweaty little fist ready to pounce on the first XL2 I can come September. I'm confident I won't be disappointed. Jay P.S. Fence sitting can be a real pain in the butt. -->>> Hey Jay, and everyone else. I'd say that I've come across my own issue, is that I forget to sometimes plug the viewfinder into the camera. Boy, has that started a few... ah.... not so pretty words. But that was my own stupidity. And to think, after owning the camera well over a year, and doing lots of shoots, I'd remember by now. Or, sometimes, my tripod as an "on/off" switch, that sometimes I leave on off. When I plug in my camera, it goes on...then off. Yea...after several layers of tape, staples (don't ask) I'm good :) It's a good camera. No two or three ways about it. Just one. The right way. (i'm starting to sound like a politician...) __________________ Ye who asks a question remains a fool for five minutes, ye who does not ask a question remains a fool forever.

July 21st, 2004, 02:22 PM	#6
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Josh, you're a far better man than I. I'd rather be boiled in oil that admit that I had made any mistakes with my camera! ;o) Jay

July 21st, 2004, 10:28 PM	#7
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	IMO 5 ( 3 , 2 whatever) lux tells me nothing about the image.. so if the dvx is rated at 2 lux is that a usable image at 2 lux ? or is it just a bunch of noise ?? is that with 3, 6, 12, 18, 36 db gain ? IMO it's doesn't tell you anything about the quality of the image. some strange reference LUX ..notice they don't give any lux readings in decent light as it would be 100,000 lux at F2 ! 3 million lux at F8??? !!! there is NO standard for these readings ..each manufacturer seems to use there own standard ..so is that 5 lux on a 18% grey card ? 90% white card ? or it is just 5 lux and i can see something on the monitor ? ...

July 22nd, 2004, 02:44 AM	#8
Kevin Lepp Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 38	the spec sheet on canon website says its 5.5 lux at 1/60 on 60i using 4:3 aspect with their 20x lens. And im sure that its, at the least, a decent picture. __________________ Kevin

July 22nd, 2004, 05:05 AM	#9
Paul Colt Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 35	Yes but many sites also state the Lux rating at 3 which just as Don pointed out Lux rating does not necessarily mean a good image. I've owned a DVX-100 and its low light ability looked better then my XM2's and my old XL-1. However if the XL-2 is as good as the DVX I'm fine with it since its not that important.