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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
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Old September 9th, 2004, 03:38 PM   #1
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No line in?

In the new DV magazine Adam Wilt says the prototype XL2 he saw had no line in on the XLRs. Can anybody who bought an XL2 confirm if they put the line in on the real models or not?
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Old September 9th, 2004, 03:42 PM   #2
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Bill

There are two sets of RCA connectors one labeled audio 1, the other Audio B (just kiddin..audio 2)...They are labeled in/out.

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Old September 9th, 2004, 03:47 PM   #3
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So he was right--there's no line in on the XLRs, but there is on the RCAs? That is truly weird. I don't think I've ever seen an XLR input on any camcorder that's mic only.
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Old September 9th, 2004, 04:22 PM   #4
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And yet, on the XL2 there's no switch or menu setting to toggle those audio inputs between line level or mic level.

This could be the single biggest drawback of the XL2 for some people, in my opinion.

(Hey Bill, I altered the subject header of this thread, was: "no line in?" I'm pretty sure you meant "line level in" as in audio impedence; as we all know that it has inputs, but no Z-level switch? -- thanx,)
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Old September 9th, 2004, 04:44 PM   #5
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Bill

Sorry I didn't read your first post correctly--specifically the part about the xlrs. I know very little about sound. What are the drawbacks of not having mic/line level presets?...how is this different than using the level adjustments on the camera?

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Old September 9th, 2004, 05:06 PM   #6
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Well, I don't know that much about audio either, but if you try to bring in an audio feed from a line-level source such as a mixing board into mic-level inputs, then you're going to have an impedence problem... right?
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Old September 9th, 2004, 05:09 PM   #7
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A Line level IN is much "hotter" than a MIC level in.....you would not be able to set levels if you could not switch between the two.

BTW- The manual is very confusing, I am doing some tests now, but it looks like it has a line in.
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Old September 9th, 2004, 05:32 PM   #8
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Sorry Greg but let's clarify things...

It has a line in (actually it has a total of four lines in).

But those inputs are mic level, are they not?

The AAS (advanced accessory shoe) inputs are definitely mic level, along with the MA-300 XLR adapter that fits in there. Aren't the two XLR inputs on the back, plus all four RCA inputs under the panel on the back right side, mic-level inputs as well? Sadly I don't have an XL2 here. :-(
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Old September 9th, 2004, 05:36 PM   #9
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You could be looking at about 40 or more dB difference between the two, so a line level signal into a mic level input will no doubt distort like a mother.

There might be line level on the RCA's but they would be unbalanced, so you couldn't get a balanced line level signal into your camera.

I'm an audio newbie too but it would seem that you might still have to have some sort of balanced XLR adapter at the camera end that could handle line level in so that you could run balanced from your boom op or a desk then a short unbalanced signal to the camera line in on the RCA or chip it down and go mic in through the XLR.

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Old September 9th, 2004, 05:39 PM   #10
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Ok, we do have a line in...
it is on the RCA connection, you simply need an XLR to RCA cable. These can be made very easily or can be ordered from any professional supply house. Markertec is a good source, you should always have one in your kit anyway as you never know what kind of sources you may encounter.

Switch the Audio input select switch to AUDIO 1 and the RCA connectors become active.
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Old September 9th, 2004, 07:10 PM   #11
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Yeah, thanks Chris. We refer to line in vs mic in in normal conversation, so I didn't say line level. Going through the RCA inputs would defeat the purpose of the balanced XLRs. To me this is a pretty huge drawback and one that's really dumb of them to do. If there's line level in on the RCAs and not on the
XLRs, you can only believe that was a colossal mistake by somebody. I'd bet they change it on the bugfix upgrade.
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Old September 9th, 2004, 07:33 PM   #12
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Hmm, yes, does seem like a bit of a balls up.

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Old September 9th, 2004, 07:59 PM   #13
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Very odd indeed...

Anyone know if/when Canon may release a fix update? Any reasonable guesses?
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Old September 9th, 2004, 08:09 PM   #14
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Chris,
Just to clairify. When I say Line In I refer to a Line level inputs.

Line in and mic in refer to ther impedience levels. You will never be able to use the volume control to properly "turn down" a line input on a mic level input.

It appears the XLR input connectors are MIC IN only. Usually XLR ins are switchable LINE/MIC. I can find no way to switch the input to line level. There is a ATT (Attenuator) switch for each xlr in, but this is not the same.

The 4 RCA inputs are all LINE LEVEL inputs, simply refered to as LINE IN. They are NOT mic level inputs. They are UNBALANCED (as they only have two issolated wires vs three on the XLR- This third wire is a ground which cancels out any noise generated by the cable).

Yes unbalanced inputs are a huge drag, but at least we have a line in. This is a BIG oversite by Canon, even my 3+ year old PD150 has balanced line inputs.

I hope they can fix this, but it is usually the line/mic switch is a physical switch near the input. Possibly they could add a software switch requiring a menu selection but I doubt this as the hardware must already be in place.

This is a BONE HEAD oversight!!

Another issue I have discovered is when recording to CH 1/2 you cant send two seperate signals to each channel. For example, it is very common to send a Mult box feed to CH1 and keep the camera mic on CH2 for backup....we cant do this.
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Old September 9th, 2004, 08:26 PM   #15
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Ok...so canon made a big screw-up. As a non-sound aficianado...I guess I want to know how big is it....

1. Is balanced input necessary for line level input ?(I understand why it is for mics...but I've run long unbalanced line level cables to my cams before with no harm that I was aware of.

2. aren't most mixers capable of outputing mic level as well as line level?

3. is an inline line-to-mic reducer (adapter, transducer or transformer...whatever you sound geeks call it) a possibility? available?

where is Don Palomaki when you need him?

Barry
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