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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 10:00 PM   #31
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No. the 2:3:3:2 mode is still the better way to shoot and edit your footage with any kind of progressive screening in mind (digital, film or computer screen).

The only time you might be just as well to use the 3:2 mode is when outputing to TV (and to TV exclusively), but frankly, if you can edit 24p footage and remove the fake frame added by the XL2, I don't even get why you'd use the 3:2 mode. You can always add the 3:2 pulldown in your NLE afterwards if you want to output in a 60i interlaced format. Difference is, you'll also have your intact unaltered 24p footage to work with for non-interlaced applications.
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Old November 25th, 2004, 12:16 PM   #32
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With my XL2 I always use 2:3:3:2 and then remove pulldown in post and work with 24fps. IF I want to go back to 30fps I simply peform 3:2 pulldown and get 30fps again.
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Old December 2nd, 2004, 08:33 PM   #33
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Maybe this is an elementary question but here is my situation: I'm going to shoot a commercial for a local church that will play in the local movie theater before a movie begins. I have no idea what they use to project these commercials (maybe it doesn't matter).

My question is - will 3:2 or 2:3:3:2 be preferred in this case? Is someone familiar with how movie theaters project/edit these commercials? The guy I talked to at the theater didn't sound like he knew what was going on. My guess is they throw all of the commercials on a timeline and loop them until the movie starts. Any thoughts?
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Old December 3rd, 2004, 09:18 AM   #34
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The choice for 2:3 or 2:3:3:2 is made based on how you're going to edit it, not on how you're going to display it.

If you're editing in a 60i timeline, use 2:3. If you're editing on a 24P timeline, use 2:3:3:2. If you're not going to edit at all, use 2:3.
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Old December 3rd, 2004, 12:38 PM   #35
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Barry,

that makes sense - I somehow got the impression from this thread that it did make a difference - I must not have read carefully enough -

I have to shoot tomorrow so thanks for the quick reply.
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Old December 4th, 2004, 02:12 AM   #36
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<<<-- Originally posted by David Lach : Doug, If you're certain all you'll do with your footage is burn it to DVD, then the advantage of a 24p sequence is that you can create true 24fps progressive DVDs for people who have such DVD players and TVs that allow for 24p viewing. If this is your only advantage however, it might not be worth the extra hastle.-->>>

You mean you can create 24p progressive mpg files to put on DVD ? You mean these DVD's can read the progressive 24p and do an internal 3:2 pulldown ?

Or am I missing something ?

Frank
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Old December 4th, 2004, 07:05 AM   #37
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Frank: that is exactly correct. DVD supports 24p through a trick,
any serious MPEG2 encoder and DVD authoring application supports
that features. All commercial (Hollywood) DVD's are encoded in
this format.

Barry: I edited your post, you had written 2:3:2:3 which should
be 2:3:3:2.
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Old December 4th, 2004, 03:04 PM   #38
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DOH! Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for the edit!
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Old December 4th, 2004, 08:06 PM   #39
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<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Frank: that is exactly correct. DVD supports 24p through a trick,
any serious MPEG2 encoder and DVD authoring application supports
that features. All commercial (Hollywood) DVD's are encoded in
this format.

Barry: I edited your post, you had written 2:3:2:3 which should
be 2:3:3:2. -->>>

Cool ! One more question Rob. I have a DVD player that can play progressive and an LDP projector. Will it look better if I put 24p mpeg footage on the DVD and have the player to the pullup then doing myself the pullup with software before putting it to DVD mpeg ?

I'm going to try this out RIGHT NOW !! :-)

Thanks again for the info !!

Frank
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Old December 4th, 2004, 08:57 PM   #40
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One more question, if you don't mind.

Do I need to use 24p or 23.976p to make progressive 24p DVD's ?

Thanks !

Frank
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Old December 5th, 2004, 03:08 AM   #41
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You'll want 23.976.

Putting the clips on as 24P yourself, and letting the DVD player do the pulldown for you, is the much better way to go. You'll be encoding 25% less information, which lets you use a lower compression ratio to get better quality on the DVD.
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Old December 5th, 2004, 05:56 PM   #42
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<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : You'll want 23.976.

Putting the clips on as 24P yourself, and letting the DVD player do the pulldown for you, is the much better way to go. You'll be encoding 25% less information, which lets you use a lower compression ratio to get better quality on the DVD. -->>>

This is AWSOME info Barry ! Thanks a lot !

Frank
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Old December 6th, 2004, 04:41 AM   #43
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23.976p, but usually the 24p template has droptime which does
that.

Frank: I'd say 24p, but I don't have a progressive player +
screen here, so I really don't know. Should be easy to do some
test yourself to see what works best!
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Old December 8th, 2004, 12:14 AM   #44
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<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : 23.976p, but usually the 24p template has droptime which does
that.

Frank: I'd say 24p, but I don't have a progressive player +
screen here, so I really don't know. Should be easy to do some
test yourself to see what works best! -->>>

Sadly ! I'm using Vegas 4.0 and it somehow can't save a 24p mainconcept mpeg2 file. I stutters !

Also DVD Architect 1.0 can't handle 24p mpeg2 files. it always wants to rsample it to 30i with pulldown.

Once I get my XL2 I'm going to get The latest Vegas + DVD package 5.0. Hope all the problems will be fixed then. I'll know more once I visit DVExpo this week ! :-)

I DO have a progressive DVD and a good projector. I have the hardware, but not the software yet ! :-)

Thanks for all the help though. I'm learning LOTS !

Frank
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Old December 8th, 2004, 12:50 AM   #45
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Vegas5+DVD can totally handle a pure 24P DVD production. On the DVX DVD I encoded some segments as 24P, and some as 60i (specifically the segments that showed 60i vs. 24P) and it did just great with all of it. Once you upgrade to Vegas 5+DVD you should be able to make 24P DVD's all day long.
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