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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
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Old October 18th, 2004, 04:17 PM   #1
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XL2 and Video Editing Software

I've used Ulead Media Studio Pro for the last 3 or 4 years. And it has basically always done what I needed it to do.

Now that I have the XL2 I would like to get some new software. But I'm completely lost on what to get. I want to be able to edit 16:9 and 24f. And also have good CG.

Please give your opinions to which software you think will complement the XL2 and is overall the best software, for under $1,200.


Thanks,

j.
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Old October 18th, 2004, 04:41 PM   #2
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If you're on the PC platform, Vegas 5.0 is my heartiest recommendation.
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Old October 18th, 2004, 05:09 PM   #3
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Barry, does Vegas remove the extra frame when editing with 24p 2:3:3:2 footage?
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Old October 18th, 2004, 09:05 PM   #4
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Vegas allows you to work seamlessly with 24P material.

It captures the file in full 60i mode, so you can choose to edit the file as either 24P or as 60i. In 24P mode it'll automatically remove the "extra" pulldown frame on the fly, giving you instant access to the pure, raw 24P content. (it'll also do this for 2:3 pulldown footage).

Or you could choose to edit in 60i, and it'll work just great with that too.

With Vegas there's no recapturing, no hassle, just instant 24P compatibility right out of the box.

And you can use it to render 24P DVD-compatible files (including AC-3 surround-sound audio!) so you can produce your own 24P DVD's, just like Hollywood DVD's! The 24P DVD stuff means you can fit 20% more on a disc, or use lower compression to get better quality, and it'll play back as true progressive on any DVD player that supports progressive/component output.
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Old October 19th, 2004, 12:07 AM   #5
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I second that Vegas suggestion. I have worked with a lot of NLE's and when I'm working on my own stuff, I choose Vegas Baby.
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Old October 19th, 2004, 05:30 AM   #6
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John, I started useing Vegas5 about 5 months ago and I am amazed at its ease and quality. I am doing a DVD Health Education program useing it and my XL-1s. Go to the Vegas5 or Sony web page and you can download a completely operational demo for 30 days. Also, do the download for the DVD2a program that does the DVD. Also, I highly recommend Douglas Spotted Eagle's training DVD's. Several places will send you both series of the training DVD's free. They are a MUST have. Bob Safay
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Old October 19th, 2004, 06:47 AM   #7
 
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John--

I've been using Vegas since version 3.0. It just keeps getting better and better. You can't go wrong with Vegas 5.0. And with the $1,200 you can get Vegas+DVD Production Suite and get back change! You can even download the trial version and give it spin, see how you like it:

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.co...p2.asp?DID=503

Jay
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Old October 19th, 2004, 09:02 AM   #8
 
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yep, Vegas 5 is definitely the best around, short of a $10K editting system. It includes compositing capability that you pay extra for in other methods.
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Old October 19th, 2004, 11:16 AM   #9
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Hmmm, I might consider doing the switch to Vegas. I've always been a Premiere user and enjoy the tools it provides but it has always been unstable and is quite CPU hungry. After 20-30 minutes long of timeline it often starts to become sluggish and slow.

Would Vegas still hold his ground against Avid Xpress DV? I've been considering this one for a while too.
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Old October 19th, 2004, 11:26 AM   #10
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I own Xpres DV Pro, and I am quite happy with it. I've played around with Vegas Demo, and didn't care for the media management or the cutting flow... but the audio tools are superb.

If you are doing short pieces, music videos, xtreme graphics and such, I would reccomend Vegas. If you are looking to do long form and feature work, then look into the Avid. The full package of Pro includes a full copy of Boris for effects and titling, nice package that is worth about $700 bucks on it's own. But the package will run over 1200 bucks all told. (Xpress DV is about 600 I bleive, but doesn't come with the boris package or the film cutting tools... which you might not need if you never intend to cut film)

Avid has a lot of different packages available, www.avid.com
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Old October 19th, 2004, 03:10 PM   #11
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Barry, I'm a little lost here:

" It captures the file in full 60i mode, so you can choose to edit the file as either 24P or as 60i. "

In so far as I know Vegas auto detects what it was shot at and imports it as such. I have some footage I just shot in 24p and cannot see how you can " choose " to have it be 60i. I can change the properties of the " project " , but the clip is still 24p. If I right click on the clip in the timeline>properties>media it's frame rate is 23.976 (IVTC Film), and the drop down is not available.

Could you expand on this a bit more. I have some footage that I would like to slomo, and at 24p looks pretty awful. This could be of great help if its possible to do what you say.

Thanks;

- Ray
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Old October 19th, 2004, 03:29 PM   #12
 
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If I understand what you're asking, vegas performs an inverse telecine on telecined material. Sound like double-talk, eh? The signal from the CCD block is 24p, however, NTSC convention dictates that the 24p is converted to 30p when it's written to tape. The conversion is performed either as 2;3 or 2;3;3;2 pulldown. So the data you get on the DV tape *IS* 30 frames per second, regardless of how it was actually detected by the CCD. Vegas, in its wisdom can remove the extra frames inserted during the pulldown process to return you to the 24 frames per second. note that 2;3 pulldown is not perfectly reversible because some info is thrown away during the pulldown process. 2:3:3:2 is perfectly reversible as all the original frames are retained. Vegas gives you a choice of whether to perform inverse telecine or not. That is to say, you can edit in 30p mode or 24p mode, depending on how you select your preferences.

Hope this helps.
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Old October 19th, 2004, 05:00 PM   #13
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Hey Bill, thanks for clarifying ... but I'm still confused. =P

1) Barry was saying " you can choose to edit the file as either 24P or as 60i. ", as opposed to what I hear you saying, 24p or 60i. *confused*

2) You said " you can edit in 30p mode or 24p mode, depending on how you select your preferences. " Which preferences ? I know you can change the project settings ( File>Properties ) but that doesn't appear to change much. Or, you can right click on the media in the timeline, which in this case its set to 23.976 (IVTC Film), and the drop down is not available.

Just trying to figure this out for my own well being, and in this case, trying to figure out the best way to slow down some pretty good footage that right now at 24p 2:3, looks pretty bad when trying to slomo.

Thanks for the help !

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Old October 19th, 2004, 07:27 PM   #14
 
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Under OPTIONS/PREFERENCES/GENERAL check or uncheck <ALLOW PULLDOWN REMOVAL WHEN OPENING 24P>

All this does is remove the pulldown. Pulldown has no effect on slomo since the choices are native 24p at normal speed or 30p/60i at normal speed. The frame rate changes because extra frames are added or removed. If you want to adjust the speed in Vegas, you need to play with the speed envelope. It is a fact that 60i telecine'd footage looks terrible in slomo because some of the frames are merely duplicates of the preceeding frame.

Also, Vegas, by default, will resample footage. This means it will create frames by interpolating new frames from other frames. The interpolating process will always generate loss of resolution....that's why 2:3 footage that's inverse telecined looks so bad. So be sure you do two things for better slo-mo--
1-Don't work with 2:3 pulldown footage
2-disable "always resample"
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Old October 19th, 2004, 11:06 PM   #15
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I am surprised that nobody has mentioned Premiere Pro 1.5.
Premiere Pro 1.5 edits 24P(2:3:3:2) and it is going to be upgraded for HDV.
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