24p questions - Page 15 at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders

Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon XL2 / XL1S / XL1 and GL2 / XM2 / GL1 / XM1.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 14th, 2005, 10:15 AM   #211
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,244
Excellent article, Kevin! Adam says basically the same I was saying, if I understood him correctly. He said, "The general rule is to shoot 24p Advanced [2:3:3:2] if you want to extract the original 24 frames/second for a 24fps edit or film-out. Shoot 24p Standard [2:3] if you are going to stay on video and edit at 30 frames/seconds (60 fields/second, i.e., plain ol' video at NTSC frame rates)..."

Isn't that what I was saying?
Jay Gladwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2005, 12:26 PM   #212
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tampa, Fl
Posts: 149
Yeah, I just posted it b/c I was very confused at one time and had people explaining it to me but seeing the visual representation really helped me wrap my head around the whole concept. I will have to admit I had toread it a couple of times to taake it all in.
Kevin Kocak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2005, 06:21 PM   #213
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines
Posts: 1,110
<<<-- Originally posted by Jay Gladwell : Excellent article, Kevin! Adam says basically the same I was saying, if I understood him correctly. He said, "The general rule is to shoot 24p Advanced [2:3:3:2] if you want to extract the original 24 frames/second for a 24fps edit or film-out. Shoot 24p Standard [2:3] if you are going to stay on video and edit at 30 frames/seconds (60 fields/second, i.e., plain ol' video at NTSC frame rates)..."

Isn't that what I was saying? -->>>

Jay, what you said was

"Therefore, if he plans to display the video on television (by way of DVD) and not transfering to film, he should be shooting using the 24p 2:3 mode."

This does not seem to apply to the situation of viewing on TV via 24p DVD where you would want to edit with a 24p timeline and so would want to shoot in 24p Advanced.

Richard
Richard Hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2005, 07:45 PM   #214
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,244
Whatever, Richard. I really don't care. To each his own. If you're showing on it TV, the end result will be the same by the nature of the viewing medium.

If you want to edit in 24p Advanced and it makes you feel good, go for it, big guy!



Jay Gladwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2005, 11:37 PM   #215
Barry Wan Kenobi
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,863
Well, it does make a difference. It makes a big difference. If editing in a 24P timeline, you can make a pure 24P DVD, which means 20% more space on the disc, or the ability to use a higher bitrate for more efficient compression.

And if playing back on an NTSC TV, yes there'll be pulldown added, whether you did it yourself in the timeline or you let the DVD player do it. But if playing back on a progressive TV, you can get a much better look by encoding the DVD at 24P in the first place, completely bypassing pulldown entirely.
Barry Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2005, 07:58 AM   #216
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 304
Jay, the point is... you seem to be saying that if your final output is TV, then just use 2:3 because that's what you're "supposed" to do.

As Barry said, there is a difference, and it doesn't really have anything to do with final output. You can still use 2:3:3:2 if you're final output is television. In fact it's the prefered method, because it gives you other options, such as better compression, output to 24p DVD, and if you decide down the road you want to transfer to film, it's much easier.

In reality, if you can edit in 24p, I don't see the point of using 2:3.....ever.
Brad Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2005, 09:13 AM   #217
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tampa, Fl
Posts: 149
This is making my head hurt
Kevin Kocak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2005, 09:32 AM   #218
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 6
DV Maker

I have yet to use my XL2 (what is WRONG with me??) but when I do I'll be shooting 2:3:3:2. Now my question: when I pull it into Premiere Pro do I create a 24p project? Or do I need something like DV Maker to convert the 2:3:3:2 to 24p before putting it in Premiere?
John S. Warrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2005, 02:38 PM   #219
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Munich Germany
Posts: 31
Thank God I live in PAL Land

We just have 25 P, that's it. Due to the math, we can not do 24 P whether 2:3 or 2:3:3:2....



Have fun with the additional options avaialbel to the 60 Hz, 100 V, 60 fps inahabitants.
__________________
Gone Fishing.
If you need me, please wait!
If it is important, please wait longer.
Steve Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2005, 02:40 PM   #220
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
Posts: 570
John, Premiere Pro incorporates the ability to deal with 24p footage all by itself and remove the fake frames when you edit in a 24p timeline. So no need for Maker, just create a 24p project with your corresponding aspect ratio and acquire your footage normally. It will detect and remove the fake frames introduced by the XL2 (for 2:3:3:2 pull down).
David Lach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2005, 11:51 AM   #221
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakland,CA
Posts: 135
It's kind of amazing how you have to repeat the same thing over and over again hey Barry ? :-)
Frank Aalbers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2005, 12:01 PM   #222
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,244
<<<-- Originally posted by Brad Simmons : Jay, the point is... you seem to be saying that if your final output is TV, then just use 2:3 because that's what you're "supposed" to do. -->>>

Brad, that is not at all what I was saying. If you go back and re-read my posts, you'll see that I said "it's not an 'only' situation at all" and that Adam Wilt said "the general rule is...".

No where have I said this is the way it's "supposed" to be done.
Jay Gladwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2005, 06:53 PM   #223
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines
Posts: 1,110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Gladwell
<<<--
No where have I said this is the way it's "supposed" to be done.
But you did say something along those lines Jay:

"Therefore, if he plans to display the video on television (by way of DVD) and not transfering to film, he should be shooting using the 24p 2:3 mode."

Big guy. :)
Richard Hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2005, 07:04 PM   #224
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Hunter
But you did say something along those lines Jay:

"Therefore, if he plans to display the video on television (by way of DVD) and not transfering to film, he should be shooting using the 24p 2:3 mode."

Big guy. :)
Quoting from the Canon XL2 manual and David Castillo, that would be an accurate statement, which I will stand by.
Jay Gladwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2005, 09:22 PM   #225
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 6
David,
Thanks so much for the info. I appreciate it very much.
John S. Warrick is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:12 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network