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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
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Old April 14th, 2005, 11:15 AM   #211
 
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Excellent article, Kevin! Adam says basically the same I was saying, if I understood him correctly. He said, "The general rule is to shoot 24p Advanced [2:3:3:2] if you want to extract the original 24 frames/second for a 24fps edit or film-out. Shoot 24p Standard [2:3] if you are going to stay on video and edit at 30 frames/seconds (60 fields/second, i.e., plain ol' video at NTSC frame rates)..."

Isn't that what I was saying?
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Old April 14th, 2005, 01:26 PM   #212
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Yeah, I just posted it b/c I was very confused at one time and had people explaining it to me but seeing the visual representation really helped me wrap my head around the whole concept. I will have to admit I had toread it a couple of times to taake it all in.
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Old April 14th, 2005, 07:21 PM   #213
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<<<-- Originally posted by Jay Gladwell : Excellent article, Kevin! Adam says basically the same I was saying, if I understood him correctly. He said, "The general rule is to shoot 24p Advanced [2:3:3:2] if you want to extract the original 24 frames/second for a 24fps edit or film-out. Shoot 24p Standard [2:3] if you are going to stay on video and edit at 30 frames/seconds (60 fields/second, i.e., plain ol' video at NTSC frame rates)..."

Isn't that what I was saying? -->>>

Jay, what you said was

"Therefore, if he plans to display the video on television (by way of DVD) and not transfering to film, he should be shooting using the 24p 2:3 mode."

This does not seem to apply to the situation of viewing on TV via 24p DVD where you would want to edit with a 24p timeline and so would want to shoot in 24p Advanced.

Richard
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Old April 14th, 2005, 08:45 PM   #214
 
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Whatever, Richard. I really don't care. To each his own. If you're showing on it TV, the end result will be the same by the nature of the viewing medium.

If you want to edit in 24p Advanced and it makes you feel good, go for it, big guy!



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Old April 15th, 2005, 12:37 AM   #215
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Well, it does make a difference. It makes a big difference. If editing in a 24P timeline, you can make a pure 24P DVD, which means 20% more space on the disc, or the ability to use a higher bitrate for more efficient compression.

And if playing back on an NTSC TV, yes there'll be pulldown added, whether you did it yourself in the timeline or you let the DVD player do it. But if playing back on a progressive TV, you can get a much better look by encoding the DVD at 24P in the first place, completely bypassing pulldown entirely.
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Old April 15th, 2005, 08:58 AM   #216
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Jay, the point is... you seem to be saying that if your final output is TV, then just use 2:3 because that's what you're "supposed" to do.

As Barry said, there is a difference, and it doesn't really have anything to do with final output. You can still use 2:3:3:2 if you're final output is television. In fact it's the prefered method, because it gives you other options, such as better compression, output to 24p DVD, and if you decide down the road you want to transfer to film, it's much easier.

In reality, if you can edit in 24p, I don't see the point of using 2:3.....ever.
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Old April 15th, 2005, 10:13 AM   #217
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This is making my head hurt
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Old April 15th, 2005, 10:32 AM   #218
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DV Maker

I have yet to use my XL2 (what is WRONG with me??) but when I do I'll be shooting 2:3:3:2. Now my question: when I pull it into Premiere Pro do I create a 24p project? Or do I need something like DV Maker to convert the 2:3:3:2 to 24p before putting it in Premiere?
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Old April 15th, 2005, 03:38 PM   #219
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Thank God I live in PAL Land

We just have 25 P, that's it. Due to the math, we can not do 24 P whether 2:3 or 2:3:3:2....



Have fun with the additional options avaialbel to the 60 Hz, 100 V, 60 fps inahabitants.
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Old April 15th, 2005, 03:40 PM   #220
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John, Premiere Pro incorporates the ability to deal with 24p footage all by itself and remove the fake frames when you edit in a 24p timeline. So no need for Maker, just create a 24p project with your corresponding aspect ratio and acquire your footage normally. It will detect and remove the fake frames introduced by the XL2 (for 2:3:3:2 pull down).
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Old April 16th, 2005, 12:51 PM   #221
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It's kind of amazing how you have to repeat the same thing over and over again hey Barry ? :-)
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Old April 16th, 2005, 01:01 PM   #222
 
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<<<-- Originally posted by Brad Simmons : Jay, the point is... you seem to be saying that if your final output is TV, then just use 2:3 because that's what you're "supposed" to do. -->>>

Brad, that is not at all what I was saying. If you go back and re-read my posts, you'll see that I said "it's not an 'only' situation at all" and that Adam Wilt said "the general rule is...".

No where have I said this is the way it's "supposed" to be done.
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Old April 17th, 2005, 07:53 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Gladwell
<<<--
No where have I said this is the way it's "supposed" to be done.
But you did say something along those lines Jay:

"Therefore, if he plans to display the video on television (by way of DVD) and not transfering to film, he should be shooting using the 24p 2:3 mode."

Big guy. :)
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Old April 17th, 2005, 08:04 PM   #224
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Hunter
But you did say something along those lines Jay:

"Therefore, if he plans to display the video on television (by way of DVD) and not transfering to film, he should be shooting using the 24p 2:3 mode."

Big guy. :)
Quoting from the Canon XL2 manual and David Castillo, that would be an accurate statement, which I will stand by.
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Old April 17th, 2005, 10:22 PM   #225
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David,
Thanks so much for the info. I appreciate it very much.
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