24p questions

[Benjamin Hill]

The short answer is:

number = frames-per-second
letter = progressive or interlaced scanning

One is not better than the other, but the different modes lend themselves to different applications. You can find many discussions about the uses of 24P vs 30P vs. 60i by searching the forum, and you also might find useful info on the XL2 page:

http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxl2/index.php

and this too:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage..._nattress.html

[Chris C. Collins]

And not to be offensive or anything, but next time you invest in something like a professional camera or other high price electronics it's good to do a little more research prior to purchase.

[Mark Leonard]

Originally Posted by Chris C. Collins

And not to be offensive or anything, but next time you invest in something like a professional camera or other high price electronics it's good to do a little more research prior to purchase.

well this sounds a little offensive as some of us have the money to buy "high price" electronic toys and then figure out how they work after :)

everyone needs to be able to ask basic questions and learn somewhere without snarky comments being thrown at them:
(http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=90949)


and Mike those are basically the shooting modes that you choose based on what your shooting and how you want the final project to look. there are probably thousands of ideas and which one to use in what situation all over this site alone :). just getting started I would say shoot with 60i as you learn how the different modes look and feel.

wiki has lots on this as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

[Mark Bournes]

In the xl-2 manual it gives you a definition of these terms.

[Chris C. Collins]

The other day I watched two blockbuster movies shot on DV.

-28 Days Later
and
-Dancer in the Dark

Both were excellent films, but they both had quite a difference to them composition-wise.

I'm not sure of the settings that 28 Days Later was shot on, although it looks somewhat like 24p... but I did however find a great way to replicate the way Dancer in the Dark was shot.

This movie had an interesting feel to it, a somewhat blurry and shakey picture. Not so much in the camera movements, but that you could obviously tell it had something to do with a lowered shutter.

So I set off and experimented a little, shooting in 60i and 1/30 shutter gives almost the exact feel of Dancer in the Dark.

Now two questions come to mind:
1. Which looks more cinematic, 24p or 60i (1/30)?

2. If 60i, is 24p really the way to go for a film-like cinema feel or is it just a fluke to sell camcorders?

Discuss!

P.S. EDIT: If someone knows the tech settings for 28 Days Later or some other way to replicate it, please share!!

[Chris C. Collins]

Not to spark any trouble, Mark, I apologize. I guess from a teenager's point of view buying something expensive and figuring it out later is less logical because of my lack of money and all the hard work I had to do to get my XL2. Because of this, I knew everything the camera had to offer months before actually purchasing it.

I just thought frame rate was a little basic.
Enjoy your new camera, Micheal!

[Mitch Fillion]

i was actually watching the making of 28 days later that comes on the dvd not too long ago and they zoom in on a shot of the LCD screen at one point and all the settings are visible. i couldn't tell you what they are unless i watched it again and paused it but they were there.

but try 1/100 on 24p, and do the quick pans that they do. i found that it looks very similar!

[Mike Andrade]

Chris,

You might want to ask someone like Ash Greyson about the 28 days look. He is sensei with the XL2 settings and can probably get you there.

[Chris C. Collins]

Really? 1/100? From my general browsing around the sight, it seems almost as if god forbids to shoot in 24p without accompanying it with 1/48. I figured the "cine" effect would be lost without those two settings like "Q and U."

I've gone to Best Buy the past 2 days in a row to buy 28 Days Later but the first time it was on the storage truck outside, and today it still wasn't stocked on the shelf, but the computer program said 3 copies were available somewhere within the store.

Bummer, I really want to digest this movie in and out!

Originally Posted by Mike Andrade

Chris,

You might want to ask someone like Ash Greyson about the 28 days look. He is sensei with the XL2 settings and can probably get you there.

Yeah, I'm hoping he'll poke his head in on this one. ;]

OH! And I forgot to ask: is this look/feel impossible with the XL2 and exclusive to XL1 only? I'm sure it isn't, but ya never know...

[Matt Newcomb]

They used high shutter speeds lot of times in that movie and they were shooting at 25p, since they were using PAL cameras I believe. There is a ton of info on the web ab out it though.

[Chris C. Collins]

I noticed the high shutters, yeah, but I was watching the Making Of featurette and it showed them filming/the raw footage and it looked much smoother than the final shot I saw in the film. So partly it's a post production trick.

And about the 25p/PAL thing, yeah I saw on the LCD during the Making Of thing that it said PAL and that suprised me because I thought that 25p was more European based since their television standard has always been 50i. I had no idea Canon XL1's could shoot 25p, let alone in PAL...

I don't think there is any significant difference that gets lost in translation is there?

[Jack Barker]

Originally Posted by Chris C. Collins

And about the 25p/PAL thing, yeah I saw on the LCD during the Making Of thing that it said PAL and that suprised me because I thought that 25p was more European based since their television standard has always been 50i. I had no idea Canon XL1's could shoot 25p, let alone in PAL...

Well, it was shot in Europe, by Europeans, using European (PAL) XL1's and XL1S's, so it shouldn't be a great surprise.

I never owned, or was much interested in the XL1 or the XL1S, but I seem to remember that neither of them had 24/25p. The XL1S had 60i and "frame" 30p only, so wouldn't the equivalent hold true for the PAL model?

[Jonathan Scruggs]

as far as what camera was used, i know they used the PAL xl1s with ec and ej prime lenses with optex adapters, but for the final scene (where they pull the sheets across the field) they used 35mm. [via imdb]

as far as the shutter speed, the rule for frantic action (i.e. zombies who can run) is a high shutter speed. you also see this method a lot in war films/combat shots lately, ala saving private ryan and band of brothers.

according to imdb, dancer in the dark used a Sony DSR-1P, a Sony DSR-PD100P, a Sony DSR-PD150, and a Sony DXC-D30WSP, all with custom anamorphic lenses. however, i'm almost positive the used 35mm for the dream/dancing sequences.

[Michael Sweeney]

Well it's not a matter of not knowing anything about the camera I just spent $2200 on. It's more the matter of just clarifying and getting a bit more information. I understand most of the basicas and just wanted to see if anyone would have some extra knowledge.
Thanks

[Geoff Dills]

Originally Posted by Chris C. Collins

I guess from a teenager's point of view buying something expensive and figuring it out later is less logical

good lesson in "if you can't add to the knowledge being offered, don't" rule.