better desciptions of features at DVinfo.net

Marty Hudzik · November 8th, 2004, 01:52 PM

Okay. This is the basic question. Is there somewhere I can go to get a more complete description of what the different settings do? For example.....for noise reduction. It probably says something like "use this to adjust the ammount of noise reduction used when recording." But does this occur before gain, after gain....how does it work.....when not to use it. The same for coring and knee and blacks. I understand this basically but would like more detail how the controls work on the XL2.

Sometime back I had a good conversation with Don Berube and he said all of these settings give you great control of the image if you use them right and that he (along with others on this board) had been privvy to demonstrations by Canon engineers on how exactly these worked and how to apply them to get good real world results. This is what I am looking for. MAybe we can set up a resource where we can share our knowledge of how these all work and when to use them and when not too.

Because I hate looking in product manuals to find out what the "Color Distention phase manipulator circuit" does and get an answer like this: "turns the Color Distention phase manipulator circuit on or of. The default is off".

Anyone agree?

David Lach · November 8th, 2004, 02:13 PM

Yes, I agree. The XL2 manual isn't very detailed. If fact, it is not at all. You can look for basic info on each function, but don't look there to find detailed information about how and when to use each knee, black, setup, gain etc. setting. It's just not in there.

I read this manual from start to end, and there's nothing I learned in there that I didn't learn already by just playing with the different settings of the camera when I first got it, and this is coming from someone that does not know a whole lot about all those pro video adjustments. I'm definitelly looking for a comprehensive guide for using those settings.

Greg Boston · November 8th, 2004, 03:32 PM

Hey Marty,

The Canon site actually has the best explanation I've seen thus far.

The link is:

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...elid=10350#f11

Scroll to the bottom where it says complete feature list. This may not be everything you're looking for, but it's way better than the manual.

=gb=

Marty Hudzik · November 8th, 2004, 03:51 PM

From the online source you pointed me at:

Knee (H/M/L)
Among the XL2's picture-enhancing circuits is the knee circuit. Setting the control to high, medium or low manages the highlight compression of the video signal

So does high mean that it the whites blow out? OR does it mean that it compresses it and keeps it from blowing out.

The same for low?

To me it isn't quite clear what they are saying. I guess if I look at the curve that is in the manual I Can figure that out.

Matthew Cherry · November 8th, 2004, 04:57 PM

Oh man what I wouldn't give for an "XL2 for Dummies" book! I've seen some resources for the XL1s and I'm just hoping that XL2 resources will be coming soon.

Matt

Greg Boston · November 8th, 2004, 05:23 PM

Marty,

Page 68 of the manual actually has a better explanation of knee and black press because it shows how the different settings affect the gamma curve.

=gb=

Marty Hudzik · November 8th, 2004, 05:44 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Greg Boston : Marty,

Page 68 of the manual actually has a better explanation of knee and black press because it shows how the different settings affect the gamma curve.

=gb= -->>>

Greg,
Thats what I was referring to when I said above "To me it isn't quite clear what they are saying. I guess if I look at the curve that is in the manual I Can figure that out."

Thanks anyway. I guess part of this whole thing is about manuals in general being vague. Especially software. You can have a button in a editing software that says "chromatic expander threshold" and you don't know what it is. So you look in the help file and it says "turns the chromatics expander threshold on or off."

Arghh!!!! I could figure that out.

Thanks.....I just hate modern manuals and help files.

Matthew Cherry · November 8th, 2004, 05:55 PM

Greg,

But if you've never worked with a gamma curve before and don't really know what it is, the manual is still less than helpful. Sure it sheds some light on it, but I would much rather hear from a DP who can explain not only what something does, but how to best use it in a variety of circumstances.

Matt

Marty Hudzik · November 8th, 2004, 07:10 PM

I didn't think of that as I have been adjusting curves in software for several years. IF you don;t know the curves then I guess it doesn't tell you squat!

November 8th, 2004, 01:52 PM	#1
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	better desciptions of features Okay. This is the basic question. Is there somewhere I can go to get a more complete description of what the different settings do? For example.....for noise reduction. It probably says something like "use this to adjust the ammount of noise reduction used when recording." But does this occur before gain, after gain....how does it work.....when not to use it. The same for coring and knee and blacks. I understand this basically but would like more detail how the controls work on the XL2. Sometime back I had a good conversation with Don Berube and he said all of these settings give you great control of the image if you use them right and that he (along with others on this board) had been privvy to demonstrations by Canon engineers on how exactly these worked and how to apply them to get good real world results. This is what I am looking for. MAybe we can set up a resource where we can share our knowledge of how these all work and when to use them and when not too. Because I hate looking in product manuals to find out what the "Color Distention phase manipulator circuit" does and get an answer like this: "turns the Color Distention phase manipulator circuit on or of. The default is off". Anyone agree?

November 8th, 2004, 02:13 PM	#2
David Lach Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Posts: 570	Yes, I agree. The XL2 manual isn't very detailed. If fact, it is not at all. You can look for basic info on each function, but don't look there to find detailed information about how and when to use each knee, black, setup, gain etc. setting. It's just not in there. I read this manual from start to end, and there's nothing I learned in there that I didn't learn already by just playing with the different settings of the camera when I first got it, and this is coming from someone that does not know a whole lot about all those pro video adjustments. I'm definitelly looking for a comprehensive guide for using those settings.

November 8th, 2004, 03:32 PM	#3
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Hey Marty, The Canon site actually has the best explanation I've seen thus far. The link is: http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...elid=10350#f11 Scroll to the bottom where it says complete feature list. This may not be everything you're looking for, but it's way better than the manual. =gb=

November 8th, 2004, 03:51 PM	#4
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	From the online source you pointed me at: Knee (H/M/L) Among the XL2's picture-enhancing circuits is the knee circuit. Setting the control to high, medium or low manages the highlight compression of the video signal So does high mean that it the whites blow out? OR does it mean that it compresses it and keeps it from blowing out. The same for low? To me it isn't quite clear what they are saying. I guess if I look at the curve that is in the manual I Can figure that out.

November 8th, 2004, 04:57 PM	#5
Matthew Cherry Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Stamford, CT United States Posts: 212	Oh man what I wouldn't give for an "XL2 for Dummies" book! I've seen some resources for the XL1s and I'm just hoping that XL2 resources will be coming soon. Matt

November 8th, 2004, 05:23 PM	#6
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Marty, Page 68 of the manual actually has a better explanation of knee and black press because it shows how the different settings affect the gamma curve. =gb=

November 8th, 2004, 05:44 PM	#7
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	<<<-- Originally posted by Greg Boston : Marty, Page 68 of the manual actually has a better explanation of knee and black press because it shows how the different settings affect the gamma curve. =gb= -->>> Greg, Thats what I was referring to when I said above "To me it isn't quite clear what they are saying. I guess if I look at the curve that is in the manual I Can figure that out." Thanks anyway. I guess part of this whole thing is about manuals in general being vague. Especially software. You can have a button in a editing software that says "chromatic expander threshold" and you don't know what it is. So you look in the help file and it says "turns the chromatics expander threshold on or off." Arghh!!!! I could figure that out. Thanks.....I just hate modern manuals and help files.

November 8th, 2004, 05:55 PM	#8
Matthew Cherry Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Stamford, CT United States Posts: 212	Greg, But if you've never worked with a gamma curve before and don't really know what it is, the manual is still less than helpful. Sure it sheds some light on it, but I would much rather hear from a DP who can explain not only what something does, but how to best use it in a variety of circumstances. Matt

November 8th, 2004, 07:10 PM	#9
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	I didn't think of that as I have been adjusting curves in software for several years. IF you don;t know the curves then I guess it doesn't tell you squat!