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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon XL2 / XL1S / XL1 and GL2 / XM2 / GL1 / XM1.


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Old November 13th, 2004, 05:47 PM   #1
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How does XL2 compare to this new Sony...

... The Sony HVR-Z1U. It's $4900 and records in HDV.

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/5327

Any thoughts???
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Old November 13th, 2004, 06:44 PM   #2
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Apples and oranges.

The XL2 is a system camera with a variety of interchangeable components. It can be configured in different ways to meet different shooting requirements on a continuous basis. It can be built up for one type of shoot and then re-built some other way for another type of shoot. Plus, it's a standard definition DV camera.

The Z1U is a compact all-in-one handycam. Its smaller size makes it much more portable. Although it can be changed via add-on accessories, it's intended to be a one-piece camera. Plus, even though it can record in standard definition, it's primary purpose is recording the high-definition HDV format.

Choose your format first. Determine your workflow and whether or not you're ready to edit in HDV, and whether or not the people who will be watching your work are ready for HD (do they have HD displays, etc.).

Finally, regardless of formats, specs or anything else, the right camera for you -- XL2, Z1U or something else -- is the one which *feels best* in your hands.
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Old November 13th, 2004, 06:50 PM   #3
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HD Need?

So, If everything I am filming is meant for internet use and DVD, there is no need for HD, is this correct or no?
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Old November 13th, 2004, 07:42 PM   #4
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Considering that today's DVDs are standard definition, and most web-delivered video is below standard def, I can't see a need for HD for what you're doing. But you might get other opinions.
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Old November 13th, 2004, 08:43 PM   #5
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Chris,

But how bout if my intention is to transfer to film?
in your opinion, should I go for HDV instead of DV even though HDV doesnt do 24p?
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Old November 13th, 2004, 09:23 PM   #6
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Michael, until they figure a way around the ridiculously low lattitude on HDV that could apparently come from excessive compression to fit the footage on DV tapes, I don't think you'll want to shoot HDV for transfer to film.

It might be a different story when the pro Sony comes out, even though I don't think it will (how could it, they'll still be using DV tapes) but until then, you're better to use what's proven to work. The Sony will look like high res video, not film, because of it's 60i nature.

Keep in mind that if your goal is to have it look like film, you'll want that 24fps progressive scanning, otherwise you'll need to deintelace in post and you'll be losing that resolution gained with the HDV.

I'll definitelly be looking when they come out with a 24fps/720p HDV cam that captures on something else than tapes, but that will likely not come from Sony with their push for the 1080i format. Maybe Panasonic in 1-2 years.
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Old November 13th, 2004, 09:40 PM   #7
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If your intent is to transfer to 35mm, my best advice is to plan your production carefully and get a firm idea of what your shooting shcedule will entail. Then, look into renting an HD camera package. If possible, rent a Pro 35 adapter and the 35mm motion picture lenses you think you'll need. If you're careful with how you budget your shooting time, the gear rental should be around the same money as it would have cost to buy an XL2 or Sony HDV camera. That's my take onj it anyway if you're serious about doing a film out.
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Old November 13th, 2004, 09:58 PM   #8
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My shooting schedule is about 25 days and we'll be doing the feature next year, so I will have to use the cameras that will be available in the market early next year.

David,
My goal is to have it look decent (acceptable) in the theatres (to the general audience and not filmmakers), as quite a number of people have release their film in theatres originated from dv in the US, i thought its one thing we can look into due to our small budget. And with HDV, i thought the higher res will make the final output even better. I was thinking of shooting in 50i since we use PAL over here, and have heard that some transfer house has successfully transfer 50i video with little losses?

Chris,
but with the renting of the HD camera package, wouldnt this increases the cost due to post production? coz from what I know,
the rental and post production cost is roughly about 150k USD over here... this is double the budget that we have at the moment..
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Old November 22nd, 2004, 12:02 PM   #9
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Michael, transfer to film starts at $350 USD per minute and that does not include making any prints. For a feature film, that's quite a lot of dough... are you sure you're going to film? It sounds like 40% of your budget is going to pay for film transfer.
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Old November 22nd, 2004, 04:48 PM   #10
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Michael:

<< but with the renting of the HD camera package, wouldnt this increases the cost due to post production? >>

Depends how you edit... for instance Final Cut Pro is HD ready, right out of the box.
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Old November 22nd, 2004, 05:01 PM   #11
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DV magazine had a full issue devoted soley to HD. I believe it was Adam Wilt, who reviewed the new Sony HD cams, and decided that if a person wanted to transfer to film they would be better off using a DVX1000A. This was in the December issue.
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Old November 22nd, 2004, 09:59 PM   #12
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Michael, if this helps any (in response to Chris' suggestion): I'm shooting an HD feature with the Cinealta, our budget is $500,000 for a 19 day shoot, almost $40,000 of which is going towards camera gear (including the engineering station and support) and we do have a filmout to 35mm budgeted as an additional cost over and above the production budget--but it's still very tight. I considered the PRO35 adaptor and a film lens package but ultimately felt that I couldn't manage the scope of additional lighting required to make up for the exposure loss due to the PRO35.
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 08:47 AM   #13
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Actually i've allocated more than 50% for the film out cost initially.

After talking to some guys here, I think most likely i'll shoot on HD Sony F900.
And edit on final cut pro HD. I'll transfer the film in asia for a lower rate.

Initially I wanted to shoot dv and transfer in high end post house, but now I think its better to shoot high quality n go for a cheaper film out, hope i'm making the right choice. It should still look much better compared to shooting in dv i suppose.

Just wondering, what kind of hard disk space are we talking about here when editing HD?
And is the HD deck going to be expensive? or if i can edit HD on pc to save cost?
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Old November 23rd, 2004, 09:01 AM   #14
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How much for film out in Asia? Any contact info? Thanks.
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