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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
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Old December 14th, 2004, 03:28 PM   #16
Barry Wan Kenobi
 
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You can get superb results on DVD if you shoot with 2:3:3:2 pulldown. You can make a native 24P DVD using the same style of encoding that Hollywood does, which lets you fit 20% more material on the disc, or use less compression for better quality.

If you like the look of 24P, then shooting 2:3:3:2, editing in a 24P timeline using a 24P-aware NLE, and making a 24P DVD is the ideal way to go. But you do have to learn to shoot for 24P, and learn how to control strobing because it's not the same as shooting 60i.
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Old December 14th, 2004, 04:03 PM   #17
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Sorry about the confusion. What I am saying is that most of us will look at the video we shoot on an NTSC television and/or a computer screen. The smoothest appearance on a TV will be realized if the video is recorded in the format for which the TV was designed i.e. 60i. As 60i looks blurred on a computer monitor because it is inherently a 30p device the mode for smoothest video to be viewed on a computer monitor is 30p. This will look a little jumpy if viewed on an NTSC monitor. Film is 24p so that the best mode to shoot in for eventual transfer to film is 24p and the best pulldown to use for this is 2:3:3:2 because the exact 24 frames recorded in each second can be easily recovered from a DV recorded that way and edited as if they came from film. Using 2:3:2:3 pulldown it's a little trickier but it can be done. Now when you take something that you've shot in 24p (or had Telecined from film) and view it on an NTSC television you will not, for the same reasons, have a picture that appears to move as smoothly as if it was shot in 60i. I'd hoped the video samples I posted a few days ago would be helpful in understanding this confusing subject.
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Old December 14th, 2004, 05:03 PM   #18
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Ah, I got it now. No worries about the confusion. I think it was more of me confusing myself. I have much to learn about all of this 24p 2:3:3:2 jazz. Im glad you guys are here to help me!
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Old December 14th, 2004, 10:31 PM   #19
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I've been using a progressive dvd player on a hd tv and its much jerkier than a rented dvd . Are there progressive dvd players that can remove the 2:3 pulldown and play it right or is there something i'm missing. Thanks
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Old December 15th, 2004, 01:07 AM   #20
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<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : You can get superb results on DVD if you shoot with 2:3:3:2 pulldown. You can make a native 24P DVD using the same style of encoding that Hollywood does, which lets you fit 20% more material on the disc, or use less compression for better quality.

If you like the look of 24P, then shooting 2:3:3:2, editing in a 24P timeline using a 24P-aware NLE, and making a 24P DVD is the ideal way to go. But you do have to learn to shoot for 24P, and learn how to control strobing because it's not the same as shooting 60i. -->>>

On this note !

Here is a little DVD example I made. Burn it on DVD or play it on the computer.
http://home.comcast.net/~chalbers/24ptest.zip

moblur_24 clip is a real 24p mpeg clip.
moblur_30 is 24p clip turned into a 60i mpeg using 2:3 pulldown.

They are circular turning spheres with different apperture settings. You can read the apperture settings in the left bottom corner. When apperture changes you can see the motion blur change.

Frank
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Old December 15th, 2004, 08:46 AM   #21
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Regarding the "jerkiness" -- shutter speed, among many factors, will also matter. 24p can be perceived as pretty smooth when the optimum shutter speed was used to obtain the right amount of motion blur. Conversely, even 60i can look jerky or otherwise unnatural if very fast shutter speeds are used on scenes with a lot of motion.
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Old December 15th, 2004, 10:30 AM   #22
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<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Aalbers :
They are circular turning spheres with different apperture settings. You can read the apperture settings in the left bottom corner. When apperture changes you can see the motion blur change.

Frank -->>>

Off course I meant SHUTTER speed and NOT apperture there !!!

Frank
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