shoot in which mode at DVinfo.net

Paul Brady · December 17th, 2004, 09:56 AM

Canon suggested shooting in 24P for best results if you know good lighting. On set I asked the video assist and he said if your final product is television which is interlaced why shoot 24P when the final product is interlaced. Does it make a difference when shooting 24P, 30P 30i when the final product is television which is interlaced?

Chris Hurd · December 17th, 2004, 10:19 AM

Hi Paul,

<< Canon suggested shooting in 24P for best results if you know good lighting. >>

When and where, specifically, did you read that?

<< Does it make a difference when shooting 24P, 30P 30i when the final product is television which is interlaced? >>

Any of these different frame rates can be displayed on a standard living-room television set without problems. The different frame rates each create a different look and feel to the video. It's simply an aesthetic choice, just a matter of the look you're trying to create or the mood you want to set, etc. In other words, a simply an artistic decision that you make. Hope this helps,

Barry Green · December 17th, 2004, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Does it make a difference when shooting 24P, 30P 30i when the final product is television which is interlaced?

It makes a HUGE difference! Shooting 24P gives the look of film transferred to video... it looks like a movie. Shooting 60i gives the raw "video" look, like a soap opera.

The difference in look is night and day. Both are equally valid choices depending on the subject matter you're shooting: the news would look really odd in 24P, as would "Survivor"... but dramatic productions, commercials, indie film projects etc. all look much more filmlike when shot in 24P.

Chris Hurd · December 17th, 2004, 01:40 PM

I may have misunderstood the question. My response was from a compatibility point of view, meaning, no matter which frame rate you shoot at, you won't have trouble viewing it on a standard monitor. Barry's response is from an artistic point of view, and his is the better answer of our two responses, in my opinion.

Barry Green · December 17th, 2004, 01:45 PM

Ah -- I see your point, Chris. Yes, your point is definitely valid as well -- no matter which mode you shoot in, it will be appropriate for display on a television and completely compatible with a television.

I guess I was assuming that people knew that, whereas that may not always be the case -- some people still think that the only reason to shoot 24P is if you're going to transfer it to film.

So yes, take both answers together.

Brad Simmons · December 18th, 2004, 05:04 AM

I haven't visited in awhile and I'm just getting back into shooting, I got my XL2 from zgc yesterday (and the usual T-shirt, love those guys).

I have an XL1s also but I've never shot in 24p before so I'm trying to catch up and have a lot to learn about this. My question is, when you are watching something shot in 24p on your regular standard television, are you actually seeing 24 frames, or has it been converted back to 29.97? I realize that is probably a totally boneheaded question. I'm wondering about compatibility. I guess I always thought regular television was interlaced and at a certain frame rate because it had to be. If I shot something in 24p, and then wanted to broadcast it, for instance a commercial, are there any compatibility issues there? Would they have to 'convert' it to a different frame rate to show on television?

Chris Hurd · December 18th, 2004, 07:20 AM

<< I guess I always thought regular television was interlaced and at a certain frame rate because it had to be. >>

And indeed it is!

How it's recorded to tape is one thing; what happens at the camera head is another. The frame rate at the camera head, be it progressive or interlaced, 24 frames or 60 fields or whatever, occurs at the camera head. That temporal motion is preserved when it's laid to tape. Even though progressive is broken down to interlace for recording to tape, it still looks progressive (and still is progressive) because there's no longer a 1/60th-sec. delay between fields.

Barry Green · December 18th, 2004, 02:21 PM

Exactly.

Also, think about it like this: film is shot at 24 frames per second, but transferred to video at 59.94 interlaced fields per second.

That's what the 24P cameras are doing: they're imaging at 24 discrete progressive frames per second, but transferring to video at 59.94 interlaced fields per second. So 24P on television looks basically like film that's been transferred to video.

Brad Simmons · December 19th, 2004, 05:32 AM

Ahhh ok I see now. Thanks for clearing this up guys!

December 17th, 2004, 09:56 AM	#1
Paul Brady Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 43	shoot in which mode Canon suggested shooting in 24P for best results if you know good lighting. On set I asked the video assist and he said if your final product is television which is interlaced why shoot 24P when the final product is interlaced. Does it make a difference when shooting 24P, 30P 30i when the final product is television which is interlaced?

December 17th, 2004, 10:19 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Hi Paul, << Canon suggested shooting in 24P for best results if you know good lighting. >> When and where, specifically, did you read that? << Does it make a difference when shooting 24P, 30P 30i when the final product is television which is interlaced? >> Any of these different frame rates can be displayed on a standard living-room television set without problems. The different frame rates each create a different look and feel to the video. It's simply an aesthetic choice, just a matter of the look you're trying to create or the mood you want to set, etc. In other words, a simply an artistic decision that you make. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

December 17th, 2004, 01:40 PM	#4
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	I may have misunderstood the question. My response was from a compatibility point of view, meaning, no matter which frame rate you shoot at, you won't have trouble viewing it on a standard monitor. Barry's response is from an artistic point of view, and his is the better answer of our two responses, in my opinion. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

December 18th, 2004, 07:20 AM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	<< I guess I always thought regular television was interlaced and at a certain frame rate because it had to be. >> And indeed it is! How it's recorded to tape is one thing; what happens at the camera head is another. The frame rate at the camera head, be it progressive or interlaced, 24 frames or 60 fields or whatever, occurs at the camera head. That temporal motion is preserved when it's laid to tape. Even though progressive is broken down to interlace for recording to tape, it still looks progressive (and still is progressive) because there's no longer a 1/60th-sec. delay between fields. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

December 17th, 2004, 01:45 PM	#5
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Ah -- I see your point, Chris. Yes, your point is definitely valid as well -- no matter which mode you shoot in, it will be appropriate for display on a television and completely compatible with a television. I guess I was assuming that people knew that, whereas that may not always be the case -- some people still think that the only reason to shoot 24P is if you're going to transfer it to film. So yes, take both answers together.

December 18th, 2004, 05:04 AM	#6
Brad Simmons Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Posts: 304	I haven't visited in awhile and I'm just getting back into shooting, I got my XL2 from zgc yesterday (and the usual T-shirt, love those guys). I have an XL1s also but I've never shot in 24p before so I'm trying to catch up and have a lot to learn about this. My question is, when you are watching something shot in 24p on your regular standard television, are you actually seeing 24 frames, or has it been converted back to 29.97? I realize that is probably a totally boneheaded question. I'm wondering about compatibility. I guess I always thought regular television was interlaced and at a certain frame rate because it had to be. If I shot something in 24p, and then wanted to broadcast it, for instance a commercial, are there any compatibility issues there? Would they have to 'convert' it to a different frame rate to show on television?

December 18th, 2004, 02:21 PM	#8
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Exactly. Also, think about it like this: film is shot at 24 frames per second, but transferred to video at 59.94 interlaced fields per second. That's what the 24P cameras are doing: they're imaging at 24 discrete progressive frames per second, but transferring to video at 59.94 interlaced fields per second. So 24P on television looks basically like film that's been transferred to video.

December 19th, 2004, 05:32 AM	#9
Brad Simmons Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Posts: 304	Ahhh ok I see now. Thanks for clearing this up guys!