XL2 vs XL1 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders

Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon XL2 / XL1S / XL1 and GL2 / XM2 / GL1 / XM1.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 20th, 2004, 03:21 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 817
XL2 vs XL1

I've seen many comparison videos come through... Xl2 vs DVX100, XL2 vs FX1, etc... but has anyone posted footage that shows the XL2 side by side with the XL1 or XL1s on the same setups?

I have no doubts that it is better... but I haven't seen any examples of how much better it is...

I haven' t seen this go by and I searched but I didn't had any luck there...

Thanks.
__________________
Barry Gribble
Integral Arts, IMDB
Barry Gribble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 09:05 AM   #2
RED Code Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Holland
Posts: 12,514
I think the reason might be that most people who had an XL1 or
XL1S upgraded it to the XL2 instead of having the two. Also you
would need to do comparisons to both the XL1 and the S model.

But yeah, it should be vastly better (than both camera's).
__________________

Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com
DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef

Join the DV Challenge | Lady X

Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors
Rob Lohman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 10:11 AM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 3,840
As it happens, I am presently cutting a documentary that I started shooting with an XL1, and finished shooting with an XL2. So I am cutting footage from both cameras together on the timeline. The project was shot in 4:3 of course, as that's what I started with on the xl1, and its meant for television broadcast.

I would have to say that the Xl2 in 4:3 is a little... 'richer' ? than thexl1? I think the saturation is a bit better, and just a tad sharper. Both cameras were mounted with the 16x lens. Bottom line, I am cutting the footage together with no problems. In other words, aside from whatver overall color balancing I will have to do to the project as a whole, I think they are comparable. The XL2 did seem to me, a bit cleaner in the night shots... less gain noise.
Richard Alvarez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 10:45 AM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sherburn, England
Posts: 135
Richard I read your response with interest as I plan to get an XL2 in the near future.

As I read your reply it seems as though (in 4:3 at least) you can intercut footage between an XL1 and an XL2 and only someone looking critically will notice the difference. I had expected the XL2 to be significantly better, but you seem to be saying the difference is minimal. I guess I will find out more when I do a hands on examination in January, but maybe you could just clarify that point.

Many Thanks

Paul
Paul Doherty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 11:01 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 817
Richard,

Interesting... thanks. Yeah, that is why I would really like to see the side by side with the exact setup. I make short films and really focus more on the creative rather than the technical... I would upgrade from my XL1 if I thought it would be 75% better, but I'm guessing that for 4:3 30i it would only be 10-15% better... I don't mind letter-boxing and I'm not that taken by 24p. I'm thinking my money might be better spent on better lighting and sound, or even the FU-1000 and manual lens (though the recent breathing thread has me re-thinking that).

The low light performance is the one thing that might get me...

So does anyone out there still have both cameras? Everyone has been cooing over the XL2 since well before it came out... and the XL2 footage I've seen is nice... but so is a lot of the XL1 stuff. I'd like to really see what the fuss is about :).
__________________
Barry Gribble
Integral Arts, IMDB
Barry Gribble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 11:24 AM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 3,840
Barry,

If I had to give a "quantitative" value to the 4:3 difference betwween the xl1 and xl2, I'd say the the xl2 is somewhere around 20 to 30 percent better image. (Which, considering the "smaller' relative target area, is quite impressive)

Now, when it comes to the 16x9, I'd say you are in the 125 to 150% better images. As a short film maker, if you want to shoot in the 16X9 format, then that's worth the jump.

I shoot with the Fuji 1000 viewfinder, wouldn't shoot without it. As to the 16x lens and the "breathing" issue... yeah, I guess that's a point, but I can count the number of times I would have a problem with it, and again, a slight movement in the rack focus, or a change in the target distance, is a work-around. Like Charles and others said though, it's something the big boys have to work with as well. I just finished working on a 35mm shoot with a Mitchell BNCR, with an 20-120 zoom on it, and there's a slight bit of breathing in that too... go figure.
Richard Alvarez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2004, 06:02 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 443
<<<-- So does anyone out there still have both cameras? -->>>

I still have both, but it is still difficult to articulate the difference between the two.

At first, in my case having the two means the Xl1 is stored in a closet and is not in use unless I need to use two cameras simultaneously

Second, in my opinion the Xl2 image
1. has more tones (for example, dark regions do not get completely black),
2. is sharper,
3. is more accurate in representing colors,
4. and does not suffer for the "light line" problem between dark and light regions. (For example, when I took a shot of the sunset, between the horizon and sky I typically recognized a bright white layer between the dark horizon and light sky. I thought this had to do with the DV format, but for my surprise, Xl2 did not suffer for the same problem.)

Moreover, the Xl2 offers
5. more tools to handle difficult light conditions
6. has more precise white balance adjustment

All this results, again in my subjective view, a more natural image. The difficulty is to demonstrate such issues. It's only when you work with a camera for a longer period, you start to recognize its characteristical features. Furthermore, you have to see the conditions in which a footage is taken and then you are able to compare the captured image to what you've seen by your eyes.

I film quite a lot at the time of sunrise and sunset. My very first observation of the Xl2 was that the colors were --compared to the Xl1-- amazingly close to what I had observed when taking the footages.

Now, if I showed the footages taken with Xl1 and Xl2 to somebody who were not there and did not have the same experience, he/she is not likely to see immediately a significant difference between the two. But still, the point is that Xl2 is like a sharper knife or ax which enables one to produce more precise details. This means, you can plan on before hand in more details what you are going to do, and in the end of the day, that'is means more food for creativeness.
Lauri Kettunen is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:13 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network