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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
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Old January 8th, 2005, 01:06 PM   #31
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Principal of Parsimony or Occam's Razor.

Definition:

A problem should be stated in its basic and simplest terms. In science, the simplest theory that fits the facts of a problem is the one that should be selected.
________________________________________________________________

Is it only me, or has this whole thing become very complicated?

Servers, pay systems, administrators, wars between nations...etc?

My take on the oringinal thread was very simple.

1. If someone needs a specific shot, the request or need is posted.

2. Some bighearted member of DV Info with access to requested footage reads said post.

3. Requestor is contacted and greetings are exchanged.

4. Dub is made and footage is sent.

5. Lifelong friendship is established!

Based on the participation and dedication level of many, if not most of the members of this board, I think this is probably the simplest and most productive way to go.

A blank tape in the necessary format and a self addressed, stamped envelope should be more than enough to cover.

I have absolutely no interest in charging someone for a minute or two of footage, just don't take advantage and treat whoever is assisting you as if he or she is a stock house.

Thoughts, questions, concerns?

RB
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Old January 8th, 2005, 01:23 PM   #32
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P.S.

These footage requests do not necessarily need to be limited to XL2 acquisitions.

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Old January 8th, 2005, 01:40 PM   #33
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Unfortunately, one of the practical complications of this seemingly simple idea is copyright. I'm sure that anybody currently involved in this thread wouldn't do so, but the possibility does exist that someone will share a clip that isn't actually their own work/property. I'd suppose that some sort of signed statement that the work is actually your property and you are putting it in the public domain would be necessary and sufficient to protect those who would like to use a clip? Or could we just add a momentary leader to each clip containing our group's standard verbiage? Sadly, I think we need to have a lawyer weigh in on this before we spend anyone's money.
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Old January 8th, 2005, 01:49 PM   #34
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Where's Paul Tauger when you need him?

That was a wrinkle that I hadn't even considered, but now that you mention it, it is a very good point.

I would hope that no one on this board would misrepresent themselves in such a manner.


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Old January 8th, 2005, 02:49 PM   #35
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then paperwork can be taken care of... we have a forum specifically dedicated to that as well =).

either way this is an excellent idea. don't let small obstacles taht can be taken care of get in the way. i dunno if this has been mentioned before in this thread but when i saw the first XL2 footages shot in Vienna i felt that this idea could work. i'm glad Travis got the ball rolling. i mean when you viewed the footages of Vienna, you're like... WOW!!! i wish i could be there... but the fact is your DVI friend IS THERE and he has a XL2 to boot! DVI is full of people who live all over the world! so i think the end is justifying the means in this case.

for example, let's say i'm shooting lord of the rings (this is just an example) i need a shot of mountain ranges for return of the king, i don't need helicopter shots... but somn where they pan mountain ranges. i put a call out to people who live in a place taht can capture those mountain ranges... and then bluescreen the actors into it! voila! my mission accomplished and the B-Roll's guy is happy to have helped somebody out.

PS i just thought of this, don't invest 2much $/time into this now just post threads and do it simply. if we have achieved a CRITICAL MASS, when thousands of threads have B-Rolls... THEN we'll think about alternate means to storing them, the community shall dictate then.... but before that... i don't think it's wise. just do it step by step and do it only when there is a NEED for it.
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Old January 8th, 2005, 03:00 PM   #36
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another option to large file hosting: USENET

alt.binaries.privatestock
alt.binaries.video.weho
etc, etc, etc


there are 100's of unused newsgroups on giganews (http://giganews.com but i don't pay for it because my isp includes it in my plan). you can upload/download as many gigs of video as you want and the videos will sit on the server for 20-30 days, and it's "free" (giganews is my isp's news provider).

not many ppl know what usenet is, but it's pretty easy to use. i think nntp predates the web by a few years (?)

usenet is a place where you can post text messages and as well as large files (called "binaries", hence the alt.binaries.xxxx) - it's not the internet, it's a different protocol called nntp which many isp's carry, check with your isp. you access nntp with a newsreader (xnews, newsleecher, etc).
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Old January 8th, 2005, 06:13 PM   #37
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that's a great idea.... though if usenet subscription ain't included with your ISP... the thought of paying for it is another one of those "gotchas".

as i've noted, just try it first. if it is wildly successful we'll think about other means of distribution... but if we don't have any successes... then it's dead in the open waters...
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Old January 8th, 2005, 06:15 PM   #38
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Foot-Age

Well, I think this idea has progressed a long way. Perhaps now we can share a little bit of what we can get in the areas that we live in (if just for a bit of fun).

I live in Utah. Mountains we have a plenty. Right now the mountains are Rocky and covered in snow. I live in North Central Utah so everything you can think of in Utah is within a 4 hour drive. Everything from Slot Canyons to Arches National Park.
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Old January 8th, 2005, 07:56 PM   #39
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A good idea run amuck!

I still think that footage requests should be addressed on a case-by-case basis.

I don't believe that footage should be made available helter skelter to anyone who has the ability to access it. I, personally, don't want MY footage used in certain types of productions. As the owner of the requested footage, I think that it is important to be heard as to how and where it is used.

When you start getting into compensation, it totally mucks everything up.

For example:

I paid you for it, I'll use it however the hell I want!

Maybe a signed agreement as to how the footage is to be used might be a good idea.

Maybe even a screen credit, no matter how small, might mollify the provider.

Just remember...business amongst family and friends is a perfect breeding ground for disaster.

RB
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Old January 8th, 2005, 09:13 PM   #40
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Footage sharing

I think that a forum of some sort, or a website with a searchable database would be helpful for people to be able to list what footage thay have available, as well as the types of footage they are able to easily obtain
Me personally, I live in the Portland OR area, so for nature we have plenty of rivers, forest areas, mountains and hills, and also a bustling downtown area with lots of beautiful houses, parks, sidewalk cafes, ect. I would certainly be inetrested in going out and just for my own experimentation as well as to share getting a good amount of footage. My understanding is that as long as I am not focusing on a single person, I dont need a model release if taking footage of say a park or a outdoor market, is this corect?
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Old January 8th, 2005, 10:21 PM   #41
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rick,

for most of these B-Roll situations i always envision it as establishing shots. for example, in the X-Files they often re-use B-Roll of establishing shots of the FBI buildings in Washington DC to make it look like scully+mulder are in DC. i think most of the shows will be used to that effect. for example if i have a story that takes place in the wild i'll have david shoot a sweeping vistas of the woodlands there that i'll cut to. then i'll come back to characters medium and close up shots of them trotting through my backyard woods.

whether or not it's a KUNG FU flick of bikini babes, p0rn or the next star wars taking place on a forested planet i couldn't care less. just helping somebody out and i would feel better if i'm compensated for one way or another. it's all a case by case scenario. heck the director can even say, i can pay shipping but i have no $ but i'll put your name on credit & you'll receive a copy of DVD signed (ha)!

as for signed documents... that should come as a no brainer. current short film makers should be aware of lawyer-happy citizens are everywhere. they should always be diligent on the legal side of things prior to doing any serious filmmaking endeavor.

@least that's how i envisioned it.
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Old January 8th, 2005, 10:48 PM   #42
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Compensation

For me personally, I had not really thought of compenstion, I much more like the free sharing idea of it. On the other hand, I would likely be happy to get a copy of the vid my work got used in.
Also, I was thinking of a music-share concept where artists who are interested ingetting perhaps a bit of exposer would submit pieces of music with a license to use in exchange for simple film credit. I think for several smaller/local bands and artists, this seems to be a reasonable idea, it could tie in with a shared resource site well
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Old January 9th, 2005, 12:22 AM   #43
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I really don't think there will be any real problem with people using your material in ways that you don't like. As I see it if you are going to get any footage you are most likely going to have to enter into some kind of dialogue with the owner. In that dialogue chances are you are going to find out what they are working on because people who visit forums like this do so because they like to talk and they like to talk about what they are doing. So, if what they want to use it for is not what you want them to you will know pretty quickly and you can decide not to share.

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Old January 9th, 2005, 07:53 AM   #44
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Rick et al,

I can understand the concerns about being careful with what happens with one's footage; none of us would want work that is linked to us used in ways we find unsavory.

Then again, this is about voluntarily file-sharing stock footage -- pretty sunrises, street scenes of faraway cities like David's beautiful Portland, etc. -- to help and be helped by gaining access to shots we otherwise couldn't have.

If folks want to contract individually for clips, I think that's a different thing than building a library of stock shots that would either be donated to a specified group/club or perhaps more simply, to the public domain. If the copyright owner isn't comfortable doing so, then he/she shouldn't share the clip in that way.

Seems that the only thorny issues here are:
- Clarifying the rights to use the clip (ownership, copyright terms, whether the owner wants a line in the credits if the clip is used)
- A practical means to make clips available -- basically managing the bandwidth demands (and perhaps with a means to limit to whom they are available)

I guess when I first saw this thread, the idea in my head was that if I needed a street scene of Portland, OR, I could go to my group's website, browse the clip library, and click a link to download a 10 second clip of downtown Portland. Depending on what the owner wanted, if I use the clip in one of my little movies, I would either credit him/her or not. If we are talking compensation and formal contracts, those of us who are hobbyists are not going to be interested.
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Old January 9th, 2005, 10:26 AM   #45
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we need a LAWYER! anybody? lol =^).
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