Well, I saw the XL2 for the first time today... at DVinfo.net

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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon XL2 / XL1S / XL1 and GL2 / XM2 / GL1 / XM1.


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Old January 6th, 2005, 05:44 PM   #1
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Well, I saw the XL2 for the first time today...

I went to my local Gluskins in Stockton, CA (the place where I found that the XL2 would be coming out in July last year). They finally got one on display. I asked the clerk to set the camera to 24p and I must say, I didn't like it. I don't know about the 24p option on the DVX100/A, but I didn't like the 24p option on the XL2. It looked a little too stroby and, dare I say it, I thought the FX1's Cineframe 24 option did just about the same quality! 0.0;;;

My other beef with the camera is all the aliasing. Where's the anti aliasing at Canon? I figure a soft filter would be the best remedy for this, but I expected better. Yes, I know the camera has to be set off of the default settings which are terrible, but even so, I think 24p is not for me. <=(

I mean, it was better looking than the XL1S's picture but that may not be enough for me to buy the XL2 over the Z1U or even a DVX100A.

Any thoughts on this?

Also, I guess out of depression, I went and bought about $100 worth of filters for my GL1. I got a few cool ones that I wanted, but I had hoped to get some XL2 action instead.
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Old January 7th, 2005, 03:50 AM   #2
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There is a very in depth comparison of these cameras here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/shoot3/

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Old January 7th, 2005, 08:12 AM   #3
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A quick note about strobing that many bring up when seeing 24p for the first time. Yes, if you're using it in a test environment where you're moving the camera about, it looks stroby. It doesn't matter if you have an XL2, a DVX, or even a hundred-thousand-dollar HD camera. If you did the same with a film camera you'd get the same strobiness, because 24fps is 24fps - it's just not a smooth thing.

Now, if you instead test it using a real-world shooting scenario, where you are following a subject and panning/moving with the subject, even though the background may be strobing, the subject doesn't. It's just a trick of the eye. And if you're stationary and just watching a subject talk and gesticulate, it won't seem stroby in a bad way.

Also, remember, 24p DV that you see hooked up to a monitor will look more 'stroby' than when you finally output to NTSC.

Next time you're at a movie or watching a dvd, watch the backgrounds - you'll see strobing. Granted projected films sometimes double-up on frames, but you'll still see strobing. Don't let it throw you off. When used properly, 24p adds a great deal to getting the film 'feel' over standard video. It requires re-evaluating the way you shoot things if you're used to a more free-wheeling way of doing things, but once you get the hang of it you won't go back to interlaced.
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Old January 7th, 2005, 08:38 AM   #4
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What frame-rate where you viewing from? It makes a huge difference. It is a huge mis-conception, myself included, for people who are unfamiliar with 24p to set the camera for 24fps which will definitely look "stroby." Even 48 fps can look a bit stroby but it is the default. I usually go with the 48 or even 60 if there is a lot of movement. I am quite pleased and I urge you to actually work in a real world seeting as mentioned above. I guarantee you will have a change of heart. On a side note... I was a AD on a feature shot with the DVX 100 and can attest that it came out great. I saw the finished product on a big screen and it look awesome. Also the XL2 with the mini 35 adapter and a good lense package can produce some impressive images as well. Do some searches and you will see tons of documentation about this.
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Old January 7th, 2005, 10:33 AM   #5
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Kevin, did you mean shutter speed? You said frame rate, but from the context it sounded like you were talking about shutter speed.
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Old January 7th, 2005, 10:54 AM   #6
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yup you are right. I don't know where my brain is today. Is there any way to edit that. It is saying I do not have permission although I am logged in. Thanks
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Old January 7th, 2005, 10:57 AM   #7
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Well, I'll think about 24p a little more. Maybe I can go back later and ask if I can record a minute or two on tape. But the camera's aliasing is still a problem. Whats the story on that? If it's been talked about before, then I must have missed it.
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Old January 7th, 2005, 11:43 AM   #8
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I also had an issue at first with the camera and aliasing until I did some research and some experiments with the camera. I found aliasing occurs with all cameras to some degree. Its just going to happen unless you want to 20 grand on a pro camera. You have to know your limitations and how to work around problems that may arise by adjusting all of those in-camera settiings that are there for a reason. If it was just as easy as pointinig and shooting than any idiot with $5000 could be a great DP. It is knowing how to make your gear produce the results that you want... That is what makes a great DP. You wouldn't point the camera at the sun and then wonder why your image is over-exposed, so why would you shoot in a scenario where you know aliasing would occur and then complain that something is wrong with the camera. I am short on time right at this second but if you are interested I describe the problems I had and how I fixed them a little later.
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Old January 7th, 2005, 03:18 PM   #9
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Hi

I recently bought two Xl2's and they are great cameras. People on this site and others get far too caught up in the very small technical imperfections that all products have.

Sure picture lag strobing, call it what you may, will occur if a camera is set to 24p,... however it can be made to look much worse if the correct shutter speed is not selected, not the fault of the camera, the inadequacy of the user.

We spend countless hours researching into hardware and software..., buy it and expect it all to work together first time. Life is just not like that. You have to invest another load of time in learning how all the stuff works, and then spend even more time to find out how it works together. ( it is easier if you are a Mac user and stick to the rules!)

The biggest technical imperfections that we all have to contend with are our own cerebral limitations, these are the real problems that we all should be addressing.
However it is fun talking about and reading about all this technical crap!

Now what’s that about the Cannon Xl3........... mmm.. must get one
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