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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon XL2 / XL1S / XL1 and GL2 / XM2 / GL1 / XM1.


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Old January 14th, 2005, 11:33 PM   #1
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Need help w/Color issues on the XL2...

I just received my new XL2 in the mail this week and have had some trouble adapting to this camera. I shot with the XL1 for the past 7 years and I believe I became spoiled by its incredible ease of use and how you could basically turn it on and capture stunning and beautiful images every time out...

With my XL2, I seem to be getting great image quality but I haven't been able to adjust the settings to where the color and saturation is comparable to the XL1. The colors, both inside and outside shots, appear more on the duller side instead of the vibrant images I am used to. I also noticed that the image with the XL2 is more "sharp" than the warmer, softer image of the XL1.

I have my gain set to "0", I always white-balance, I use the ND filter outdoors in bright light, and I went through the settings and adjusted them to my best of knowledge (this is where I could probably use the most help though).

I read a few other messages on this board that seemed to echo my perceptions but overall it seems as if most users are very satisified. And please don't get me wrong, I love the XL2 and I am in awe of some of the new features, just frustrated with not being able to get the same colors or quality as the XL1? Help!!!
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Old January 15th, 2005, 12:49 AM   #2
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Just bump up the Color Gain a couple of notches or so until you see the saturation you want.

- don
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Old January 15th, 2005, 12:55 AM   #3
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Thanks Don for the info...I am going to hook my XL2 up to a monitor tomorrow and go fine tune the settings to acheive the look I want. I will try and bump up the color gain as you suggested...
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Old January 15th, 2005, 07:48 AM   #4
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This seems to be a common theme. The XL2 actually captures color more accurately than the XL1s which oversaturates appreciably more than the XL2. Clearly people don't want accurate color - they want vibrant color. That's what the color gain control is for though I and some others suggest that it is better to record accurate color and add vibrance in post if that is what is desired for the final product. Remember than once the CCD signal is put through the DV compression process the original is not exactly recoverable.

I always jump on this one for fear that if enough people grumble about the dull colors from the XL2 the XL2s will have default settings which over saturate the way the XL1s did. I prefer accurate reproduction because I feel it gives me the most latitude in post.
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Old January 15th, 2005, 10:07 AM   #5
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Jae

I'm going to echo A.J.'s comments here. My feeling has always been that certain colors on the xl1s were overdone (as are those on the DVX100), and that the xl2 gives me a color range that is very neutral, accurate...essentially the starting point that I'd want if I were a DP or broadcast cameraman. It's 12bit DSP allows for high quality adjustments to this starting point in camera, certainly beyond the range of sanity. (See this clip (settings below)....http://homepage.mac.com/barrygoyette/FileSharing24.html...

the settings, and discussion of the color on the xl2 are here

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...nd+impressions

The thing that surprises me about your comment, and some others that I've heard is that the colors look dull to you (I can understand that they look different from the xl1). My experience is that when I look through the viewfinder the image is somewhat low in saturation...but this is the viewfinder. When I view on the computer the image is slightly desaturated (what you'd expect, as very few of us have our computers set for NTSC color)...but when I view on my sony WEGA set at home (how we should be evaluating our images anyway...at the final viewing device) my images are as saturated as could be...wonderful...really!! and this is without any tricks applied to the image. This is what confuses me...

My feeling is that this is all a matter of tuning...Canon made a decision with this camera, because of its new adjustment capabilities and 12 bit dsp, to give us a camera that is more like a broadcast camera or digital cinema device. Lower contrast and saturation that can be boosted with in camera controls. In my experimenting with the adjustments I have been able to far surpass the color saturation of a stock xl1s (not that I'd want to). But if you do...its there in the menus. Good luck.

Barry
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Old January 15th, 2005, 01:31 PM   #6
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This is why it's important to have an accurate and calibrated production monitor. This way, the image can be accurately assessed. And yes, start with as clean and neutral a picture as you can and tweak in post.

I have several custom settings that I use, depending on what's called for. I have started a little booklet, so that if I want to dial in a particular look, it's right there in my little notebook.
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Old January 15th, 2005, 05:20 PM   #7
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Thanks for the info everyone -- good advice and it makes sense. I think I am just suffering a little bit of "new buyer's" jitters and "no-more-money-left-I-thought-this-camera-would-be-like-the-XL1" :)

I agree that it is best to start off with a more neutral color setting/appearance and then tweak from there. And yes, once you view the footage on a TV the colors are much more saturated and look great.

Just needed to hear some of your thoughts so thank again for your comments and info!
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Old January 16th, 2005, 08:32 AM   #8
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Hi

As a new owner of 2XL2's can I say this has been a very interesting 'thread'.One question I would like to ask Mark Sasahara:-

what type of notes do you write in your little book?
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Old January 16th, 2005, 02:20 PM   #9
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Since there are several pages in the Custom Presets for RGB Gain, Ped, noise, etc, I can to keep track of how I set the camera and write down phone numbers of hot chicks :~)
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Old January 16th, 2005, 03:31 PM   #10
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Hi
would you be willing to share those numbers!
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Old January 16th, 2005, 04:02 PM   #11
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You'll have to read my posts on DV Info Babes.net.
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Old January 18th, 2005, 09:35 AM   #12
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Also take a look at this thread:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=37061
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