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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon XL2 / XL1S / XL1 and GL2 / XM2 / GL1 / XM1.


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Old May 30th, 2005, 11:15 AM   #1
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At wits end

Recently, I had problems with my XL2, when connecting it from the 1394 port to the computer, it had a tendency to fry the camera...see this thread...
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=38679

Canon eventually replaced the Camera recently with a new one, I shot video with it and went to transfer it to the computer...It was capturing video just fine for a while, then the computer started to refuse to recognize the camera. Worse yet, it seems like the camera has caught a virus, where no computer will recognize it. I have tried every basic thing I know of...new cables, different computers, reconfiguring software, everything. I have scanned the internet, and found one cihilling (for me) post from someone else who seems to have had the same problem.

http://www.dvboard.com/index.php?act...135&#entry2665

I have been trying to find a cheap firewire device to plug into my system or the others that have been tested, to see if it is truly destroying things, but unfortunately it seems that everything is USB, and only some external HD's, DV gear, and some specialty (read: expensive) items are firewire.

So, here I am as frustrated as I've ever been asking for help. Obviously the computer goes to a repair facility where it either gets fixed, or is banished from ever seeing a dv device again, and I fork over the bucks for a new system. I don't really need to spend the bucks on a new system now...I need to get a lighting package, software, etc, and this is not what I had in mind.

The camera, if she's truly out of it needs to go back a third time, and Canon is getting tired of hearing from me. Fortunately, this time I haven't fried anything, it's just a firewire problem. (I still get output from S-video, and can work from there.)

Has anyone ever heard of this, and does anyone else have any ideas? I have never had problems like this that I could not solve, so, please, please, please, give me your ideas...Anything.

Again, I have done the basics, Cables, virus scans, hardware and software setup (thru windows Device Manager).

Thanks
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Old May 30th, 2005, 01:06 PM   #2
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Bill, I've looked through your post a couple times.

Have you tried connecting your camera to someone else's system? That is a variable that I would go through when testing this firewire issue.

I really don't think your camera can catch a virus. I could be wrong but it seems unlikely.
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Last edited by Keith Loh; May 30th, 2005 at 02:46 PM.
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Old May 30th, 2005, 01:12 PM   #3
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Second that

I haven't had this problem (I dump to a FireStore, which always connects well to my Mac). But Keith's right: your computer's a major variable in your chain you need to eliminate.
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Old May 30th, 2005, 02:55 PM   #4
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sad story

Hi there

Sory to hear about yoour problems. Unfortunatly you are not alone, in having problems with a PC frying the firewire connection inside a camera. Working over hear in education I have heard of several stories of this type. It appears the common factor was dubious quality firewire boards inside the computers being used for capture. This is an area where Mac users can be more confident about not having these kind of problem. I, like many other Mac users tend to experience fewer ( but by no means no) problems with camera computer interface and capture.
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Old May 30th, 2005, 03:24 PM   #5
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Check the earth-connection for your computer. If you use only a 2 pin powercable then you could have a low current on your pc cabinet and frame. Try to touch the cabinet. If you feel a buzz, then this is your problem.

Always use a 3-pin powerplug insertet in a proper wall outlet with earthe connection.
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Old May 30th, 2005, 03:25 PM   #6
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I've just tried the camera on a brand new Dell...this time the 4 pin to 4 pin, (small on both ends) connection. Still no recogintion of the camera.

Camera's 1394 capabilirties appear to be gone, and without a doubt, this is caused by the computer. Therefore, computer's gonna be gone too.

Sigh.


I didn't need this.
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Old May 30th, 2005, 03:32 PM   #7
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ERIC: Is that right? I just did a search on this very forum about "Mac Firewire port problem" and found at least one person reporting an issue with their Mac and a GL2. And another one with their XL1. There were a bunch of other threads too about firewire recognition possible issues concerning Macs.

Anyway, as I recall Dylan Couper in this board had a firewire port problem with one of his XL1's and the PC he had then. Dylan?
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Old May 30th, 2005, 04:49 PM   #8
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FireWire

I'm sure we all know this, but I'll just say for refresh sake. It is very important that when you hook up your Firwire to the XL2 that the camera is off. Then once it is plugged into both the computer port and Camera port. Turn the XL2 on. If you fail to do this, you run the " risk " of having problems like the above mentioned.
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Old May 30th, 2005, 08:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin McMillan
I'm sure we all know this, but I'll just say for refresh sake. It is very important that when you hook up your Firwire to the XL2 that the camera is off. Then once it is plugged into both the computer port and Camera port. Turn the XL2 on. If you fail to do this, you run the " risk " of having problems like the above mentioned.
Darrin, I think you're making this up, what's your reference? When connecting audio and video connections, the manual clearly states turn everything off when connecting cables, but for Firewire its just the opposite. Firewire, like USB is made to recognize while live; Firewire devices don't have to load when the OS boots.

Page 101 of the user manual (second bullet):
If the computer freezes while you have the camcorder, disconnect and reconnect the DV cable. If the problem persists, disconnect the interface cable, turn off the camcorder and computer, turn camcorder and computer back on and reconnect them.

That's pretty clear to me that all Firewire connections are made while the computer and the camcorder are ON.
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Old May 31st, 2005, 01:03 AM   #10
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Being very paranoid from the first (fried) connection, I have only been making my connections with the camera off. Period.

Camera offl. Attach cable. Turn camera on. Computer says .....

Nothing...

Page 101 of the user manual does reference this as a hot connection, I haven't done that in the mortal fear of cooking something else. Anyone else want to try and let me know...
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Old May 31st, 2005, 01:58 AM   #11
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Personally, the best thing you could do is buy a cheap mini DV camera, $250, leave it connected to your computer at all times, and use that as your capture deck. I have a DVX100A and have been using another mini DV camera for capture, which I have hooked up to a 4pin to 4pin fire wire port (just to be safe). The computer blowing fire wire ports on the camera is not just a PC thing, I have heard many, if not more Mac complaints of the computer frying the camera, so there isn't a whole lot you can do. Just make sure that A. you have a good fire wire card, and B. you don't hook your XL2 up to it. The fire wire on these cameras really should only be used when going direct to disk, or when connecting to a laptop to monitor using a program like DV rack. I know that the camera can be used as a capture deck, but it just wears out the camera in the long run.
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Old May 31st, 2005, 11:39 PM   #12
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It certainly doesn't hurt to have the camera powered off when connecting the FireWire cable. But, that said, Firewire was engineered to be hot-swappable. The Firewire contact pins actually have (ever-so-slightly) differing lengths to ensure that the "powered" pin makes contact at the right time, and not too soon, when plugging the cable in.

So, in the FireWire spec, there's absolutely no reason to power down devices when connecting or disconnecting them. Hot-swappability was one of FireWire's guiding motivations.

In the real world, though, a bad chipset or a bad FireWire cable could cause trouble. I would think it would be rare for a problem to occur by plugging in a "live" FireWire device, but since there's no harm in waiting for a device to be plugged in before powering it up, it's reasonable for people to feel more comfortable doing that. (And hey, nobody needs my permission. :-) But people should also know that FireWire was designed to allow "live" devices to be connected. (Just think of all those iPods being synched day in and day out.)

- Scott
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Old June 1st, 2005, 12:05 AM   #13
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Courage

Dear Bill,

I'm sorry that you're having such problems. You may want to look at getting the Sony GVD-1000. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=242757&is=REG.

This way you will save your XL2 transport mechanism and any other hardships. The cheap video camera with firewire out is also another way to go, as someone else suggested.

Good luck and hang in there.
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Old June 1st, 2005, 06:42 AM   #14
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Bill: it is pretty well known that it is WISE to attach or de-tach a camera
when it is OFF. Wether or not this should matter or not is of little relevance
now is it.

No-one said you should power down your computer (however, that would
be the safest way to connect or disconnect).

It sounds like your firewire port on the XL2 (or some logic behind it) is busted,
you will have to send your camera to Canon again.

It could very well be that your computer is the problem (too much power on
the firewire lines or some grounding problem as described earlier).
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Old June 1st, 2005, 08:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Lohman
Bill: it is pretty well known that it is WISE to attach or de-tach a camera when it is OFF.
Rob, I've got to take exception to this 'wive's tale' that "it is WISE to attach or de-tach a camera when it is OFF".

It is wise to know your equipment and not assume that Firewire behaves like other video or audio connections. You really shouldn't perpetuate the myth that you should turn the camera off to attach the IEEE1394 cable, it just isn't true and because you're a Wrangler here, someone might believe your misconception that that would be the "safest way to connect or disconnect".

Rob, what we should all strive to convey are the facts concerning the capabilities of the equipment we use. Firewire was specifically engineered to permit live connection. In fact some devices will not connect if the device isn't powered up when connected.

I'm with you on powering down to attach A/V connection, as stated in the user manual. But the manual also indicates Firewire doesn't require this and 'tribal lore' isn't a good enough reason to tell people it is.

Rob, this was not directed at you personally, so many (possibly including you) think this is a flame. Its not, I apologize if you think so, but I just want facts to trump assumptions.
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