Can someone please help with audio set-up? - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
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Old September 18th, 2005, 10:27 AM   #16
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Man am I dumb!!!

I wasn't heaing the channels 3/ 4 because the AUDIO MONITOR button was not set properly. Page 49 of ther manual . Thanks!!
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Old September 18th, 2005, 12:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Smith
Man am I dumb!!!

I wasn't heaing the channels 3/ 4 because the AUDIO MONITOR button was not set properly. Page 49 of ther manual . Thanks!!
The first two posts in this thread mention the importance of the audio monitor button. I'm glad you finally found it...Now you are not dumb,...and if you think you are, re-read the second post and it clearly demonstrates that I was dumb first.
-Jon


BTW: In this case it is better to be dumb than deaf...if dumb, you can still hear the audio when using the correct setting...if deaf...well, Canon doesn't supply a button for fixing that on the XL2.
-J.
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Old September 18th, 2005, 12:10 PM   #18
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hello everyone

since this is somewhat, what i need help with i guess i'll stick it here, hehe

im just using a xlr sgm( no front mic) could someone give me a good set up for it please im a little lost.

thanks

Mike
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Old September 18th, 2005, 12:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Lopresti
hello everyone

since this is somewhat, what i need help with i guess i'll stick it here, hehe

im just using a xlr sgm( no front mic) could someone give me a good set up for it please im a little lost.

thanks

Mike
Hi Michael,
I hope the following clears up your situation for you:
As an XLR sgm, and your only audio source, I would think you might want to take the mono signal input and place it onto both L & R tracks so here is what you do:

Be certain you are using the default audio setup menu setting. If you have switched it around at some point, just double check, but if not, it will already be in the default mode of 16 bit 48kz stereo. (You can double check this by selecting menu>audio setup>16 bit...[I think that right, I'm not in front of the cam right now])

Connect your sgm into the left rear XLR input (ch. 1/3)

With the audio control panel (under the left rear audio control door/flap) switch your Audio 1 setting to 'rear'. This will transfer your input signal the rear XLR inputs and you should be able to hear (through headphones) the sgm coming into the left side of your phones (channel 1). Now, in the audio control panel, you will find a switch that gives you to options (ch.1 or ch 1>2) Select Ch 1>2...this turns your left mono feed into a dual channel mono feed so you will hear your sgm on both sides (ch 1 & 2.)

At the rear of XL2 near the audio input jacks you will find small switches that allow both phantom power and attenuation for you input. On your Azden, I am pretty sure you do not want the attenuation on. Attenuation cuts the signal input to avoid distorting but this should not be a problem on your sgm. If you mic uses a battery, make sure it is fresh and functional. If it does not, than the phantom pwr switch provides the necessary juice.

Finally, back to the audio control panel, you can select either A or M (auto or manual) volume adjustment. The Auto generally works quite well, but on some sgm's you want a little more manual control, so you can switch it to M (manual) and turn the volume dial according to need.

Finally, just a reminder as it has come up before and hardly needs repeating..but just in case...the XL2 does not have a speaker. You will need to monitor your audio through a decent pair of phones.

Good luck, I hope this helps.
-Jon
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Old September 18th, 2005, 01:08 PM   #20
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Thanks for all your patience.

Though I thought I read the posts and understood them, I guess I really didn't. I read Chris's and Jon's but still missed that dubious AUDIO MONITOR buton. Maybe my eyes didn't want to see it, because I never used it before and therefore didn't even know it existed.

Thanks all.

I think that is one for the FAQs.
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Old September 18th, 2005, 01:36 PM   #21
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Thx Jon!! :)

Thanks alot Jon, ill recheck my settings.

Thank you again

cheers
Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Jones
Hi Michael,
I hope the following clears up your situation for you:
As an XLR sgm, and your only audio source, I would think you might want to take the mono signal input and place it onto both L & R tracks so here is what you do:

Be certain you are using the default audio setup menu setting. If you have switched it around at some point, just double check, but if not, it will already be in the default mode of 16 bit 48kz stereo. (You can double check this by selecting menu>audio setup>16 bit...[I think that right, I'm not in front of the cam right now])

Connect your sgm into the left rear XLR input (ch. 1/3)

With the audio control panel (under the left rear audio control door/flap) switch your Audio 1 setting to 'rear'. This will transfer your input signal the rear XLR inputs and you should be able to hear (through headphones) the sgm coming into the left side of your phones (channel 1). Now, in the audio control panel, you will find a switch that gives you to options (ch.1 or ch 1>2) Select Ch 1>2...this turns your left mono feed into a dual channel mono feed so you will hear your sgm on both sides (ch 1 & 2.)

At the rear of XL2 near the audio input jacks you will find small switches that allow both phantom power and attenuation for you input. On your Azden, I am pretty sure you do not want the attenuation on. Attenuation cuts the signal input to avoid distorting but this should not be a problem on your sgm. If you mic uses a battery, make sure it is fresh and functional. If it does not, than the phantom pwr switch provides the necessary juice.

Finally, back to the audio control panel, you can select either A or M (auto or manual) volume adjustment. The Auto generally works quite well, but on some sgm's you want a little more manual control, so you can switch it to M (manual) and turn the volume dial according to need.

Finally, just a reminder as it has come up before and hardly needs repeating..but just in case...the XL2 does not have a speaker. You will need to monitor your audio through a decent pair of phones.

Good luck, I hope this helps.
-Jon
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Old September 18th, 2005, 01:42 PM   #22
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This is a question for Jonathan:

I'm basically using the same setup you mention here for mono, but I wonder what you would suggest if I want to use the stereo XL2 mic just for ambient street noise and use the audio tech mic for someone speaking...should I change from 16bit/48k, to 12bit? or can I stay with the same settings for my sgm and just use the front mic and adjust settings for that in the audio control panel? front, channel 3/4?
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Old September 18th, 2005, 02:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucinda Luvaas
This is a question for Jonathan:

I'm basically using the same setup you mention here for mono, but I wonder what you would suggest if I want to use the stereo XL2 mic just for ambient street noise and use the audio tech mic for someone speaking...should I change from 16bit/48k, to 12bit? or can I stay with the same settings for my sgm and just use the front mic and adjust settings for that in the audio control panel? front, channel 3/4?
Hi Lucinda,
Unfortunately, this is where it gets a little more complicated. Basically, you are going to have to use the 12 bit option here. The front mic always requires the stereo input of audio one is not selectable in audio 2. (There is a complex workaround to get what you want, but it requires costly external hardware, and you will still need the 12 bit option for dedicated track audio input to the tape)

So, basically, you will have to switch to 12bit / 4 channel, and then select the front mic in audio 1. In audio 2 you will switch to 'rear', but the ch1>2 option for dual tracking does not exist for ch3 & 4, so your audio tech mic will only be tracked to the left field on ch3, (or the right on ch4 if that is your chosen input.) You can dual-track-mono this signal in post if you prefer, for a more natural listening experience.

While you are at it, you might want to consider 'up'-res the 12bit to 16 bit in post in case you are going to mix it will sound effects, music, or other 16 bit standard sound files. The general consensus is that many NLE's get easily confused when there are multiple bit-rate sound files in the same project. It took me a while to get anyone to explain to me what the result would be because most people just pass-on the info without knowing what about the NLE gets 'confused' - so I tried it a few times to experiment and found that in some areas of multiple audio layering with variable bit rates, sometimes the sound loses sync, and sometimes a few pieces of audio just sounded 'mulched' for lack of a better term. (Kind of like if sound was visual and you held a large magnet against an old tv screen)

Depending on your capturing application, you may have to run a 2nd capture session to get separated audio tracks into your NLE. Some apps will take all of it in 1 session and keep the tracks separated, others will mix it by default giving you no separating options, and most will provide you with options to capture 1st with just tracks 1&2 audio, and then a 2nd time capturing just 3&4 audio.

(Just a note re: 12 bit audio. You will find purists in the forums that deride 12 bit audio, and attest to its inferiority-chastising all who use it. I have worked in professional audio since I was 14 (now 38) and have near-freakish hearing, and will say this:
12 bit audio is FINE for some situations. ambient noise and spoken word... pretty much no problem at all and 98 percent of the world are never going to know the difference. If I am capturing something like music (especially with wide dynamic range, like jazz or orchestral, I like to stick with 16 bit. There is a noticable difference with dynamic presence.

But 12 bit is fine....most folks are going to view video files using crappy computer speakers, or crappy tv speakers....and I know for certain that alot of 12 bit audio has been used in network broadcast without prompting ol' Magnavox Joe to get off the couch and fiddle with the 'tone' knob.
'nuff said..

Hope this helps...good luck with your project.
-Jon
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Old September 18th, 2005, 02:41 PM   #24
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Jon,

ok i recheck my setting and they are set up the way you said. im having a hard time hitting -12db. anything that might help me reach the level?

and one more question for ya ( hope you dont mind :) )

XLR CH1/3 and CH2/4, can i use one or the other? or can i only use CH1/3? do i need 2 XLR mic's to beable to use CH 2/4?

cuz i pluged in to CH 2/4 and im getting no sound...

a little baffled here heheh

thanks
Mike
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Old September 18th, 2005, 03:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Lopresti
Jon,

ok i recheck my setting and they are set up the way you said. im having a hard time hitting -12db. anything that might help me reach the level?

and one more question for ya ( hope you dont mind :) )

XLR CH1/3 and CH2/4, can i use one or the other? or can i only use CH1/3? do i need 2 XLR mic's to beable to use CH 2/4?

cuz i pluged in to CH 2/4 and im getting no sound...

a little baffled here heheh

thanks
Mike

If you are trying to dupe the signal to both L & R fields for a centered mono track you can only use CH 1/3 input . If you using the CH 1>2 setting to do this, it does indeed disable the input from the CH 2/4 jack.

As far as reaching the level you are trying to achieve, if you are trying to get a stronger signal, make sure your attenuator is 'off', set your input to manual control, dial your input setting knob to as high as you need to, and then if using the Azden sgm, test your levels according to the intended sound source output (ie: direct line of sight to the camera lens between apprx 7 - 30 feets away, not by speaking into it from the side while trying to monitor the level bars on the viewfinder - as the sgm attempts to cancel incoming signal from the sides and rear of the mic.

If on the other hand you find your incoming signal is too hot...activate the attenuator to pad the signal, then set the incoming signal to 'auto' as the camera attempts to smooth out the incoming signal....if it is still too hot even with 'auto', then switch to manual adjustment and dial the signal down as far as needed.
-Jon
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Old September 18th, 2005, 05:42 PM   #26
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ok so if i only have 1 XLR mic i can only use CH1/3. thanks for for taking your time to clear things up for me

thanks alot
cheers
Mike
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Old September 18th, 2005, 05:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Lopresti
ok so if i only have 1 XLR mic i can only use CH1/3. thanks for for taking your time to clear things up for me

thanks alot
cheers
Mike
Yes, that's right - if you are okay just using only one side than CH 2/4 is okay too, just remember to switch the ch 1>2 switch back to ch1.

Have fun.
-Jon
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Old September 18th, 2005, 06:52 PM   #28
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Jon,

Healdsburg...I used to live in Mendocino...and went thru Healdsburg having breakfast not too long ago. Beautiful area!

Anyway, my current NLE only has 16 and 8 bit, not 12...ugh. So, I know I can just use the shot gun mic for ambient and for interviewing/talking, etc., I've just done that.

I was just wondering how to use the stereo mic along with it, but I guess I'll have to wait 'til I get FCP.

Thanks so much for your detailed responses! Really helps.
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Old September 18th, 2005, 08:05 PM   #29
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I used to drive through Mendo all the time on work.

May I ask what NLE you are using?

I am still learning FCP (in my off time) so I have pretty much used iMovie so far, which doesn't have any cool advanced sound control features, so I import my 12 bit audio into other apps like QT pro or Audacity and convert it to 16 bit and then drop it into the iMovie time line. I haven't had any problems keeping it synced when I make my cuts.

-Jon
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Old September 19th, 2005, 01:00 AM   #30
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I'm still using Premiere 6.5 because Pro is for Windows/PC users. I basically use Premiere for tying all the clips together that I import from AE and Commotion Pro and Digital Performer. I just checked and saw that this version of Premiere doesn't support 12bit, as I said, only 8bit and 16bit which is what I've always used: 48k and 16bit stereo.... While recording with the XL2, I've been using mono on channel 1/3 and it sounds perfect. I assume that FCP has the 12bit audio option.
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