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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
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Old August 1st, 2006, 04:07 PM   #76
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FILTERS: If the user has an 812 filter or other warming or color correction filter on the camera, WB must occur BEFORE placing the filter on the lens. When the filter is placed on the lens, then the light is effected which will alter the color rendition.


ELECTRONIC PRESETS: The WB never alters the color or parameters set electronically. Anything in PRESET is already committed to memory and the circuitry is already pre-programmed for the PRESET. Think of it as the motherboard on your computer. The electronic preset and the WB work together. The WB will not change the colors, saturation etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bass
But it seems that if you add preset that makes color changes, white balancing would negate those changes, know what I mean? If you add red with a preset, and then white balance, wouldn't it take away your added red? Am I wrong?


Also, it seems you'd white balance, if you were in a controlled environment/artificial lighting situation, after you set up your key light. Cause if you do all this lighting and gelling lights, and then white balance, wouldn't it negate those effects? Assuming you gelled your key, or whatever you're using to light the surface you're white balancing to.
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Old August 1st, 2006, 04:13 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Bruno
The WB will not change the colors, saturation etc.
This isn't true in my experience. A preset I often use is shifted toward the blue, and yet a warm white balance will still warm the picture considerably.
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Old August 1st, 2006, 04:37 PM   #78
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So you're saying if I white balance, but have a preset that adds +2 blue, -2 red, etc., the camera knows this and applies these changes to the picture AFTER the white balance, EVEN if the preset was on when I white balanced?
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Old August 1st, 2006, 06:58 PM   #79
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I'm still not really sure how the chain of image manipulations works out myself; maybe Ash will chime in soon with a detailed explanation of how all these pieces fit together.

Josh, I should probably add that in the situation I was talking about earlier, I use a preset WB... I have a preset WB for warm outdoor shooting on sunny days, and that WB preset was set with the cam's RGB values at default.

OK, I'm just getting more confused now.
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Old August 2nd, 2006, 06:59 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley
This isn't true in my experience. A preset I often use is shifted toward the blue, and yet a warm white balance will still warm the picture considerably.
Of course it does! All of the settings in the camera are based on or adjusted to what it thinks white is. If you use a warmer white balance card it changes what the camera assumes white is and the picture will be warmer.

Put in all of your presets, set up all of the lights you need, then white balance just before you shoot.

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Old August 2nd, 2006, 11:03 AM   #81
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Most the time when I give people presets, I include a WB instruction. I dial in the presets, then white balance. I have not done any extensive testing but I doubt you would see a lot of difference either way. I have matched settings over firewire with people who did a WB at a different time than me and everything seemed to match...



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Old August 2nd, 2006, 04:00 PM   #82
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Mike--

I know what WB is, and how it works. :) What we're talking about is the extent to which RGB settings in a preset will or will not offset or enhance the effects of warm or cool white balances. For example, if you WB to a light blue card for a warm color temp, and then dial down the red and up the blue in a preset, which takes precedence? Do the two effects even each other out?

I was saying that in my experience, the WB effect seems to overpower any preset color shifting by a pretty substantial margin. This would seem to run counter to what the manual says.
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Old August 2nd, 2006, 04:24 PM   #83
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If I can find/time movtivation, I guess I can do a test or two. Nothing real scientific you understand, just white balance then add preset in one instance, and in the other, add preset THEN WB.
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Old August 2nd, 2006, 07:15 PM   #84
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White balance defines white so of course it overpowers a preset as it sets color temperature. It should be used in combination with presets to create a look.


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Old August 2nd, 2006, 08:48 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley
Mike--

I know what WB is, and how it works. :) What we're talking about is the extent to which RGB settings in a preset will or will not offset or enhance the effects of warm or cool white balances. For example, if you WB to a light blue card for a warm color temp, and then dial down the red and up the blue in a preset, which takes precedence? Do the two effects even each other out?

I was saying that in my experience, the WB effect seems to overpower any preset color shifting by a pretty substantial margin. This would seem to run counter to what the manual says.
Jarrod,

I never meant to imply that you didn't know what white balance was, because I'm sure that you do. It is just that you have to understand the order, or precedence, of settings so to speak.

As I said, "If you use a warmer white balance card it changes what the camera assumes white is and the picture will be warmer." Maybe I should add that if you white balance then change a setting in the camera, then that setting will be different. If you white balance to a color or shade other than straight white, every setting in the camera will be different, as the camera balances it all based on what it thinks white is.

You really can't throw a preset in then white balance to another color, unless that preset was set to the other white in the first place.

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Old August 2nd, 2006, 11:44 PM   #86
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So, then you WOULD add a preset after white balancing, if it alters color, to get your desired look.
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Old August 3rd, 2006, 08:33 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bass
So, then you WOULD add a preset after white balancing, if it alters color, to get your desired look.
YES! I was struggling to word that well, but that is it.

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Old August 3rd, 2006, 09:18 AM   #88
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Ah. There we are then.
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Old September 25th, 2006, 04:14 PM   #89
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Old News

I know this may be old news to all of you but I've just ran across a July 25th 2005 thread that directs you to downloadable XL2 Custom Preset files.
Problem is that I can't get download anything. Is this becouse it's closed?
Any new sites I can go to? I've had my XL2 for a year plus now and am looking to get new outside ideas on settings. I should a lot of pre-lit wide stage area projects so I do not have much or any control of lighting.
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Old September 25th, 2006, 04:21 PM   #90
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Thye seemed to work ok about 10 hours ago when I downloaded them. Right click and Save Target As..
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