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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
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Old July 19th, 2005, 09:55 PM   #1
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2 wireless mics only one works in XL2

I recently got an XL2 and when I try to get sound out of two wireless mics it isn't working for Channel 2. I have my camera set up as such:

REC CH (CH1 CH2 SETTING) INPUT SELECT REAR FOR AUDIO ONE AND TWO
CHANNEL ONE WORKS GREAT, CHANNEL TWO DOESN'T AT ALL. I HAVE THE CAMERA SET ON 16 BIT.

PLEASE HELP...

by the way, when i use one wireless it sounds much better on REC CH CH1 AND CH2 SETTING instead of just CH1...

THANKS FOR ANY HELP,

DOUG

Last edited by Doug Thron; July 19th, 2005 at 10:00 PM. Reason: CLARIFY WHAT I'M SAYING
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Old July 20th, 2005, 07:28 AM   #2
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Sounds like you have the settings correct...CH1-CH2 setting to record from both mics. If you haven't already, try just reversing the mic connections at the XLR inputs to see if the problem follows the mic or stays with the camera channel.

As far as sounding better in the CH1 setting, I'd just guess that it is a psychoacoustic thing that it is more pleasing to have signal coming out of both speakers?
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Old July 20th, 2005, 10:17 AM   #3
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Actually, it sounds to me like the settings are not correct in context of the the result I assume you are trying to reach. I suspect you are monitoring the sound output through stereo headphones...and you state that the one wireless sounds better when using CH1 CH2 setting. This is because it becomes a stereo feed where you can hear the results out of both the left and right side, making it a fuller sound in the headphones.

When monitoring in headphones, you realize that the XLR left and right inputs produce a left and right monitor output respectively. If only using 1 mic, you can use the CH1 CH2 setting to produce a balanced 'stereo' field using the 1 mono signal simply because this setting duplicates the CH1 input so that it also records sound to the right side. This allows the sound from the mic to play in both sides of the speaker when editing in post and producing a stereo field all the way to the DVD...

It also overrides the CH2 input if you have a mic plugged into the right XLR input.

The correct setting for you would be to switch the CH1 CH2 setting back to CH1. You will need to adjust the att. switch and input dials to achieve the proper input levels and find the correct balance between your mic inputs, but this should allow you monitor and record sound from both mics - if they are working correctly.

You will find in post that sound from the CH1 mic is produced in the left speaker of a stereo field, and sound from the CH2 mic is on the right. If you want each channel to work in a mono field and come out of both sides, you will need to fix that in post either in your editing program (if it possesses that feature,) or by extracting your audio and futzing with it in an audio editing program.
-Jon
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Old July 20th, 2005, 10:48 AM   #4
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Try using 12 bit instead.

I believe you need to drop down your audio settings to 12 bit, 16 bit only allows for 1 mic input into the camera.

Ryan
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Old July 20th, 2005, 11:03 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan DesRoches
I believe you need to drop down your audio settings to 12 bit, 16 bit only allows for 1 mic input into the camera.

Ryan
No, Ryan. That's not true of the XL-2. You can use both rear XLR inputs as Jonathan stated. You won't be able to use the on-camera mic though. In fact, I think Jonathan hit on the problem. If the original poster sets the rear input to CH1-CH2, he is indeed overriding the channel 2 XLR because channel 1 XLR is being crossfed as a mono signal to both channels. The switch labeling on the camera is a bit misleading.

Instead of:

-CH1
-CH1-CH2

They should have done something like:

-CH1/CH2 ST
-CH1>CH2 M

That would have made it less confusing.

regards,

=gb=
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Old July 20th, 2005, 11:07 AM   #6
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I hope we aren't all getting confused by terminology, but here's my understanding:

When recording to a single stereo pair (AUDIO 1)...
Setting CH1-CH2 will allow the CH1 (Left) XLR to feed to the left audio channel of the camera and the CH2 (Right) XLR to feed to the right audio channel.

Setting CH1 will cause the CH1 (Left) XLR to feed to both audio channels within the camera, and ignore the CH2 (Right) XLR.

You don't need to drop to 12 bit audio to do this; 12bit is only needed if you want to record more than 2 channels (one audio pair). 16bit does support one stereo pair (left and right channels).
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Old July 20th, 2005, 11:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Bauer
I hope we aren't all getting confused by terminology, but here's my understanding:

When recording to a single stereo pair (AUDIO 1)...
Setting CH1-CH2 will allow the CH1 (Left) XLR to feed to the left audio channel of the camera and the CH2 (Right) XLR to feed to the right audio channel.

Setting CH1 will cause the CH1 (Left) XLR to feed to both audio channels within the camera, and ignore the CH2 (Right) XLR.

You don't need to drop to 12 bit audio to do this; 12bit is only needed if you want to record more than 2 channels (one audio pair). 16bit does support one stereo pair (left and right channels).

Pete,

It's the other way around, as I posted above. I just consulted the manual to confirm this. Bottom of page 51 explains it. I know you are probably at work now and don't have access to the manual.

regards,

-gb-
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Old July 20th, 2005, 11:36 AM   #8
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Greg is correct. It is he other way around. Although the labeling is misleading, the way Greg laid it out is accurate. I support Greg's assertion that the labeling should be corrected in accordance to his posting.
-Jon
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Old July 20th, 2005, 12:18 PM   #9
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Does it sound like something is broken with my camera based on the results below:

REC CH (CH1 CH2 SETTING) INPUT SELECT REAR FOR AUDIO ONE AND TWO,
CHANNEL ONE WORKS GREAT, CHANNEL TWO DOESN'T AT ALL. I HAVE THE CAMERA SET ON 16 BIT.

and does it hurt my final product in any way to record like this:
Using one wireless it sounds much better (in the headphones)on REC CH CH1 AND CH2 SETTING instead of just CH1...

THANKS FOR ANY HELP,

DOUG
ps: thanks for all the previous help. Also, while I know alot about still photography this digital video stuff is all new to me so if you could directly answer my questions then go into more detail that would be most helpful.
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Old July 20th, 2005, 12:26 PM   #10
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Doug, it sounds like there is some type of miscommunication going on...so let me just ask this:

When you state that CH2 is not working (when plugging in your second wireless mic) does this mean that your CH1 mic is working in both your left and right headphones?
clarify---is channel 1 mic outputting sound through both left and right in your headphones?
-Jon
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Old July 20th, 2005, 12:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Jones
Actually, it sounds to me like the settings are not correct in context of the the result I assume you are trying to reach. I suspect you are monitoring the sound output through stereo headphones...and you state that the one wireless sounds better when using CH1 CH2 setting. This is because it becomes a stereo feed where you can hear the results out of both the left and right side, making it a fuller sound in the headphones.

When monitoring in headphones, you realize that the XLR left and right inputs produce a left and right monitor output respectively. If only using 1 mic, you can use the CH1 CH2 setting to produce a balanced 'stereo' field using the 1 mono signal simply because this setting duplicates the CH1 input so that it also records sound to the right side. This allows the sound from the mic to play in both sides of the speaker when editing in post and producing a stereo field all the way to the DVD...

It also overrides the CH2 input if you have a mic plugged into the right XLR input.

The correct setting for you would be to switch the CH1 CH2 setting back to CH1. You will need to adjust the att. switch and input dials to achieve the proper input levels and find the correct balance between your mic inputs, but this should allow you monitor and record sound from both mics - if they are working correctly.

You will find in post that sound from the CH1 mic is produced in the left speaker of a stereo field, and sound from the CH2 mic is on the right. If you want each channel to work in a mono field and come out of both sides, you will need to fix that in post either in your editing program (if it possesses that feature,) or by extracting your audio and futzing with it in an audio editing program.
-Jon
so if I read this correctly then everything according to my original post if fine right? as far as my equipment is concerned. so when using 2 wireless I want to use REC CH SELECT CH1 ONLY and NOT REC CH SELECT CH1 AND CH2. I hope this is correct and my camera is fine.
thanks-Doug
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Old July 20th, 2005, 12:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Thron
so if I read this correctly then everything according to my original post if fine right? as far as my equipment is concerned. so when using 2 wireless I want to use REC CH SELECT CH1 ONLY and NOT REC CH SELECT CH1 AND CH2. I hope this is correct and my camera is fine.
thanks-Doug
That is correct. Then, as long as your CH2 wireless mic is functioning properly, and not using the same frequency as your other wireless, and is correctly set up for level and attenuation, you should hear it through the right side of your headphones.
-Jon
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Old July 20th, 2005, 12:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Jones
Doug, it sounds like there is some type of miscommunication going on...so let me just ask this:

When you state that CH2 is not working (when plugging in your second wireless mic) does this mean that your CH1 mic is working in both your left and right headphones? YES...
clarify---is channel 1 mic outputting sound through both left and right in your headphones? YES...
-Jon

YES to both questions...and thank you very much for helping me...Doug
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Old July 20th, 2005, 02:07 PM   #14
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Yup, Greg's right...sorry for the confusion. I use those buttons all the time without problem, but the labeling is confusing on the camera AND in the manual, now that I look at it! But it works as Greg said.

So Doug, do I understand that all is well now, or are there still problems?
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Old July 20th, 2005, 03:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Thron
Does it sound like something is broken with my camera based on the results below:

REC CH (CH1 CH2 SETTING) INPUT SELECT REAR FOR AUDIO ONE AND TWO,
CHANNEL ONE WORKS GREAT, CHANNEL TWO DOESN'T AT ALL. I HAVE THE CAMERA SET ON 16 BIT.

and does it hurt my final product in any way to record like this:
Using one wireless it sounds much better (in the headphones)on REC CH CH1 AND CH2 SETTING instead of just CH1...

THANKS FOR ANY HELP,

DOUG
ps: thanks for all the previous help. Also, while I know alot about still photography this digital video stuff is all new to me so if you could directly answer my questions then go into more detail that would be most helpful.
Audio 2 is a non-issue if you're working in 16bit mode. Since you're new, it bears repeating that the mini-DV spec allows only 2 audio channels in 16bit 48khz mode. If you want more than 2 channels simultaneously recorded via the camera, you'll have to go into the menu and switch to the lower quality 12bit, 32khz audio mode. This will allow 4 channel recording onto the tape. So forget about audio 2 for now. Now, if you have the audio one setting to rear ch1-ch2, you're not going to hear the lav on channel 2 because channel 1 (left) is being crossfed to the other channel (right) to get sound coming out of both sides of the downstream equipment (editor). It will be the same sound and not a stereo image.

Flip the REC CH SELECT switch to the upper, CH1 position. This keeps the two XLR jacks separated into a left channel(1) and a right channel(2) and your 2 lav mics should be heard separately.

Based on your own posts, you have the switch in the wrong position.

Hope this helps,

-gb-
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